ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Increasing demand factors in residential
by tortuga - 03/28/24 05:57 PM
Portable generator question
by Steve Miller - 03/19/24 08:50 PM
Do we need grounding?
by NORCAL - 03/19/24 05:11 PM
240V only in a home and NEC?
by dsk - 03/19/24 06:33 AM
Cordless Tools: The Obvious Question
by renosteinke - 03/14/24 08:05 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 265 guests, and 15 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
C
Member
In my town a 20' stick of #4 rebar with about an 18" bend, tied to the bottom bar and protruding up through the footing is what gets done and passed about 90% of the time.

The point of connection between the EGC and the rebar must remain accessible at all times. (usually a 5/8" acrorn clamp, a mud ring and a blank CP)

I did do a job a couple of hundred miles north of here where they had other ideas about that.

My conversations with a local EC's people (they also ran the only parts house in that rural community)got me only to the statement:
"A uffer is 20 ft of copper ran in the footing."
Period.
End of conversation.

I still think they were misinterpreting 250.52(A)(3) just a bit.


Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


>> 2023 NEC & Related Reference & Exam Prep
2023 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with the Latest NEC & Exam Prep

>> 2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
 

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 169
C
Member
Rereading the original post I see I missed the point.
It seems George is concerned about being legally bound to bond any and every stub of structural steel within the bounds of his installed system.
Could you imagine explaining to the average homeowner why you need to hack into their 50 year old foundation to bond the rebar (well, there was supposed to be some rebar in here!!)
while doing an otherwise routine service change. As if explaining the cost of arc fault breakers and why you needed so many wasn't bad enough.

I'm waiting for an inspector to tell me that I need a #4 bond between all of the copper stubs attached to an otherwise plastic plumbing system because they are "likely to become energized".

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 55
I
Member
The concrete folks that did our basement were aware of the requirement and they simply left a stub sticking out of the floor next to the wall where the breaker panel was going to be located. I don't see how it will rust out being inside and dry, and not in contact with the earth. An inside stub seems to be the best situation re corrosion.

In addition, we have three ground rods plus the well casing which goes down 60' (the well is 320' deep).

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
A
Member
Two items of my extended learning about the Concrete encased electrode.
If the rebar is used only in the walls of the foundation and not the footer it is NOT suitable as the Ufer ground.
Caution must be taken where the rebar comes out of the top of a wall that has a treated lumber sill plate. The newer treated lumber is extremely corrosive to metal. Contractors are having to use either stainless steel or an extra thick coating of galvanize on fasteners with the newer lumber, when building decks etc.
This is all because the water lines are becoming non-metalic. Even wells are PVC with metal only at the top.
Next big head ache is the CSST gas lines. frown


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 348
I
ITO Offline
Member
In my local jurisdiction if we would like to obtain a final inspection and CO, electrical contractors have a choice for how to install the Ufer Ground; we can either install it and have it inspected before the concrete is poured, or do so after the concrete is poured, and our AJH is so nice he let’s us choose which way we want to do it.


101° Rx = + /_\
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
A
Member
Just inspected one yesterday, that wasn't done correctly. The electrician took a # 8 to a ground rod buried where the service conduits came up from the transformer into the building. That was OK but he also used # 8 to the rebar. NEC 250.66(B)sets a maximum of # 4 CU which is what he should have used for the 2,000 amp service. The problem now is what to do to correct or change. We're looking at building steel and metal water pipes to make up for the goof. frown


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 348
I
ITO Offline
Member
For what it is worth the local AJH makes guys like him chip up the slab, find rebar and fix it. It's a hard lesson but we rarely have to learn it twice.


101° Rx = + /_\
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,923
Likes: 32
G
Member
The Ufer is part of the inspection before you pour the footer here. They should catch the undersized conductor then. If so there, the inspector owns some of the blame. I think he should help try to find another compliant way to fix this.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 348
I
ITO Offline
Member
I think you are assuming the concrete was poured after it was inspected.


101° Rx = + /_\
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,381
Likes: 7
Member
Clarification time...
New construction (or addition) ufer is installed before concrete pour by Building Inspector. He checks rebar, lengths, ties, clamp (approved) and # 4 AWG Cu minimum size.

Electrical Inspector does not see ufer/rebar only #4 at point of emergence from concrete.

If and when the ufer is NOT installed, or 'lost' it is no longer 'available' and cannot be used. The concrete is not mandated to be chipped, cut, etc. Other means of providing the ground are utilized, as before the ufer was an option

(New Jersey style)



John
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5