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Joined: Apr 2007
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I was curious at what age you guys or gals became apprentices in the electrical trade? i am curious to hear as i know you will have some guys who started very young and others who made a career change later in life. what was the hardest part about your apprenticeship?


Tony

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Tony,
My career as an Electrician was a second thought.
I started off as a Paid Fire-Fighter here in NZ.
I went straight from Secondary school into the New Zealand Fire Service, after 5 years service, I had a bad accident that found me Medically-Boarded.
At the age of 23 I needed to find a new way to earn a living and fast.
I moved away from the town where I was living and got a job with the local PoCo as an apprentice Line Mechanic.
Believe me, this was not easy, I basically tried to sell myself to everyone in town at the time, I even offered to work for free, just for the experience.
I went all over town here, handing out my CV, no-one called.
Just when I thought it was a stupid move shifting to Ashburton, I got a call from the then Lines supervisor at Electricity Ashburton, when can you sit your medical?.
Oddly enough, after Bob called a few others also called.
You just can't win mate!
It never rains but it pours.

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I am a 4th generation electrician and contractor, as long as I can remember as a kid we used to all sit around the dinner table and count fixtures and devices for estimates, while my mother and grand mother extended totals.

The old man let me start sweeping out the warehouse at 11, after 5 year of weekends and summers in the warehouse he put me in the field digging ditches and hauling 4” rigid and other back breaking work. When I was 18 the union brushed me off and I was too proud to use my family connections so I went back to school for a while, then started my own business later. 10-years of blazing trails that had already been blazed made me realize my family connections were not such a bad thing after all, and went back to work for the old man. He is gone now and my kids now help me take off plans.


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A quick career breakdown

1980 From school to apprenticeship “Electrical Fitter” Kincardine power station, Scottish Power
1984 Apprenticeship over station closing transferred to Glasgow retrained as “Electrical fitter Distribution” Scottish Power
1985 Then went into telecoms remote switching and signalling still with Scottish Power
1989 Life went to pot bar manager London
1990 Came home to “mummy” worked for numerous small electrical contractors, new builds, rewires, industrial, contract work
1992 Prison Officer (needed job security) Scottish Prison Service
1998 Prison Officer electrician security systems (back to telecoms stuff)
2000-Present : Prison Officer instructor teaching inmates about basic electrical theory

So I have had breaks from the trade but keep going back to it and to be honest "Still learning" and enjoying it


der Großvater
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pressed button too early!
It's 6AM in deepest France; Need coffee!
Alan

Last edited by Alan Belson; 07/26/07 12:14 AM.

Wood work but can't!
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Ah! That's better! 16, apprenticeships back then [‘59] were 5 years. I won’t bore you with my resumé, but I worked my way up from making the tea, drilling holes in toothbrush handles, machinist, fitter, draftsman, to Engineer in a Government Plant. All my qualifications were gained by part time study, apart from my 20 yard swimming certificate, [ I started at the top and worked my way down! ]. Retired at age 50 after Gulf War I and have only worked for ‘her indoors’ since, the best boss I ever had, [ I never got to sleep with any of the others! ] Moved to France 7 years ago. Will go back to the UK eventually, but only in a box!


Wood work but can't!
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I was 26 when I started. It has been a hard uphill battle and don't think I could do it today if I wanted to. The hardest part was the decrease in pay. I was operating heavy equipment and was working around 50-60 hours a week @ $14.50/hr. I started this as a first year apprentice working 40 hours a week @11.25/hr. That was a drastic decrease in pay and it hurt for a long while. Now I make more than I did then and it has really paid off with knowledge.

I just don't think I would do it again because I wouldn't know better and with the increase in gas prices it would really throw me off.

Good thread. Really made me think.


"If common sense was common, everyone would have it"-not sure, someone here

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I'd like to add to my above post,
I started off as an Adult apprentice, which to a certain extent, earned me a wee bit of "respect" with my new co-workers, I was not some new boy fresh out of school, the fact that I had a heap of vehicle licences also helped.

But one thing that ALL apprentices are met with, was to hit me really hard, the wages.
I ended up flatting here in Ashburton for the first few years I was here.
Having luxuries like a car, just didn't happen.
This was in a time where apprentices could be paid less than minimum wage, because they were under a training scheme.
In my first year, I earned NZ$3.60 an hour, this was a humungous shock from the NZ$15.50 I had been earning as a Paid Senior Fire-fighter.
But no point in moaning, I was glad to be working again.
Things did get better, the work got steadily better as I learned new skills and I was really fitting in with the crowd at work.

Back then, you had to go away to the Polytechnic in Timaru once a year for a month on your Block course, this was more a pain in the backside really as half the time the tutor (who had been teaching basic electrical skills to people that couldn't find a job, was more often than not, burned out) and he would often ask the students to help teach the class, this isn't nearly as dangerous as it sounds, in fact I picked up more on the basics of Electricity this way than reading any book or watching a video about it.
You were constantly watching your class-mates to see if they would screw up!

I personally miss my days as an apprentice, they were good days.
My advice to anyone looking to get into this trade, please by all means, have a go, if you have the intuition to be a good worker and don't mind a few of the more menial tasks, like sweeping floors and so-forth, you may just fit in.
In closing, I will say that age is no barrier, if you have good eye-hand co-ordination and are good with tools and have an eye for detail, we need you!.

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There would seem to be some fundamental differences between apprenticeships in the US vs Britain and her ex Colonies and Dominions.

In Britain in the past one was ‘indentured’ at an early age, perhaps 12 or 13, to a Master, who became in loco parentis. These apprenticeships lasted 7 years, that is until one reached the age of majority, at 21.
No salary, just board and lodging. Many apprentices were chained to their benches to stop them running away in the 18C, but that was banned in 1947. [ joke laugh ].
Of course, these apprenticeships were actually slavery in real terms- and many ‘indentured’ boys wound up in the colonies as unpaid labor....
Fifty years before I was indentured, one’s parents paid the Master to train you! You got paid zilch.
By the time I was apprenticed we at least got paid something.
I started on 4s3d per hour = £8 10s 0d a week, say US $17 at today’s rate, and finished on £14 10s 0d a week, but my employer was of a generous disposition. I gave Ma about 2/3rds of my take home and still managed to run a series of large motorcycles and assorted girlfriends.
Once out of my time however, my pay shot up to £26 a week, which was a very good pay-packet in the mid sixties.
I just dug out my Deed of Apprenticeship indentures. [ no, not my false teeth!].
It says I shall
“Faithfully serve the Master, his secrets keep and his lawful commands obey;
Do no damage to the Master nor his Goods…
Not waste the Goods of the Master….nor absent myself from the Master’s Service without leave.
In all things behave myself as a Faithful Apprentice towards the Master and others having authority over me."

It also says my mother had to pay ‘nil’ for my training!
The years served had dropped to 5 - the official UK school leaving age being raised to 16.
In the eighties the terms dropped to 3 years. How anyone was supposed to get a Full Tech Cert or an HNC in 3 years is beyond me.

How does it work in America?

Alan


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I do not believe the apprenticeship programs for the building trades are given enough respect and credibility in the US as they should get, and we shoot ourselves in the foot with our own labor laws.

We pretend to educate our children in public schools while simultaneously preaching how important college is, which for the most part a vast majority of our kids will not attend. I have actually overheard a woman telling her kids if they don’t study real hard and go to college or they will end up as a “construction worker”.

Twenty five years ago the IBEW apprenticeship program rejected way more young men than they accepted, now they actively recruit in local high schools and job fairs and are lucky to get a handful of boys who are interested, and of that group only about 25% are keepers.

My oldest boy has ZERO interest in being a “construction worker”, and lacks the discipline to go to college. He says he wants to “work with computers”, hell I know more about computer science than he does.

Culturally the building trades are taking some hard hits, and if you think that is bad the plumbers have it a lot worse.



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I was a month shy of 29 when I started. When I got out of the military when I was 21, factory work was quick money and more steady the apprenticeship. As much as I wanted to be an electrcian, my family came first. Years later, I was not happy with factory work. My wife came across an apprenticeship job with ok pay. I would have to take a big pay cut plus a cut in hours since I was working all the OT I wanted at the time. Between the layoffs and dealing with a tragedy in the family, it was a very hard road. In time we managed to make it through the hard times.

I agree with ITO that kids these days have little respect for the construction trades. Currently in Alaska, more people are leaving the trades faster than they can be replaced. Kids today do not want a hard, dirty job for little pay. They want a job playing computer games in an air conditioned office that has a skateboard ramp. That office will never get built without the qualified trades people. I recently read in a trade magazine that in the next seven years, there will be a need for 84,000 more electricians then there are available today. I do not think that number includes the losses through retirement and such.

Getting through an aprenticeship program is not an easy task however when you "pay your dues" it is a rewarding career that is always changing.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
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I started in an apprenticeship with the LU and we had 180+ people at the orientation for 1st year. We are now currently ending our 4th year and we have a total of 29 people now. I guess they were right at orientation when they told us "look to your right, look to your left, there's a really good chance you won't see these people again"


"If common sense was common, everyone would have it"-not sure, someone here

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Originally Posted by sparkyinak


Kids today do not want a hard, dirty job for little pay. They want a job playing computer games in an air conditioned office that has a skateboard ramp. That office will never get built without the qualified trades people. I recently read in a trade magazine that in the next seven years, there will be a need for 84,000 more electricians then there are available today. I do not think that number includes the losses through retirement and such.

Getting through an aprenticeship program is not an easy task however when you "pay your dues" it is a rewarding career that is always changing.

sparkyinak,
Good post mate,
Oddly enough, there isn't a day goes by here in NZ where there isn't an ad on TV or the radio about getting yourself a degree in IT or Law or Business Studies and unfortunately for the trades here, the kids are falling for it hook, line and sinker.
Kids these days want to take the shortest path possible to the good money and with an education system here where there are no real fail marks given out, it makes me wonder just how good this "training" really is.
There has been a distinct lack of tradespeople here for years and it isn't going to just go away over night, other side of the coin though, you can't force people to work in a trade where they may not be suited to the work, that would just be stupidity.
Sparkyinak, sure we've all been through the hard times of the apprenticeship and that is what a lot of prospective apprentices look at, is the bad money and think that it is par for the course once you come out of your time.
Things got heaps better for me once I finished my time, I worked around quite a few other places, slowly building up experience in how other factories and processes work and that is the one thing I love about my chosen career, you are always picking up new skills and you never stop learning.
I would sooner be doing what I am than say, standing in a factory watching tins of food go past on a conveyor belt, any day!.

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One of my earliest memories is reaching inside a 2" x 3" hole to grab a piece of flex (Most likely Greenfield) for my Dad to "drop" an outlet into a wall.

Mom & Dad owned & rehabbed a 2-flat in the Uptown district of Chicago in the late 60's-early 70's. Dad did 95% of his own work. Before anybody jumps on the DIY wagon with torch in hand, Chicago required (and still does AFAIK) alll work to be inspected and performed to applicable codes. Homeowners were granted a little more largesse, but still had to "toe the line". I helped Dad with verous projects around our houses most of my life.

In High School (1980's) I joined Stage Crew, and since I had some electrical knowledge I sort of gravitated towards the lighting division. Ahh, the days of 1000w swivel spots and humming Variacs...

I college (late 80's) I "handymanned" for the school, and constructed an abomination of a dimmer box that was used for various stage productions. It was plywood and had six 1000w rotary dimmers and a handful of receptacles in the back... the dimmers were split so each set of three were supplied by their own cord.

Got hired by the Navy as a firefighter and we rehabbed the "day room" in the station. Got to help opn that job, ripping out knob & tube (built in the 40's) and replacing it with conduit.

Then I got hired by the City, and eventually I wound up purchasing a house (1995), and discovered that the wiring (mercifully encased in circa 1930's rigid conduit) was all the old rubber insulated linen covered type. Chased down all the boxes, split the circuits, tied new THHN/THWN to the old and went to the other end and yanked. (I finally found sconce boxes hidden beneath plaster two years ago and finally purged the house of the last of the antique wire) laugh

My Fire Chief heard that I "knew electrical" and hired me to wire his garage.

I think back now and wince - while it wasn't unsafe, it was far from the degree of competence I have now.

I ran a "handyman" business the would "assist homeowners in performing their own electrical work" wink thus barely skirting the license / permit requirements. Luckily, before I started, I read up on what Codes were in force in the City, and complied with them.

As I told a customer who was complaining about it once "I might get busted for doing electrical work without a license, but I won't get cited for doing unsafe or not-to-Code work".

The AHJ knew what I was doing, and also knew I was working towards getting licensed; he told me once that my work was better than some "old salts" who'd held tickets for 30 years, since they were still working off of 1960's era Code.

Eventually worked for several local EC's, and took the Education Direct Electrician's course. The combo of the certificate and work experience allowed me to challenge the EC license exam.

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I probably went through 30 apprentices in the last year, and only 2 have stayed. Both farm boys, with thick accents and beat up farm trucks, and both go home and work the fields at night with their parents. I guess that says a lot about who we are as a culture.


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Quote
I think back now and wince - while it wasn't unsafe, it was far from the degree of competence I have now.

Hehe,
I would imagine there wouldn't be a single guy here, that could disagree with that statement!. grin
There are some jobs that I went back and fixed free of charge some years later, not serious things, but it's the old I know they are there thing, I like sleeping at night.

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Trumpy is still an apprentice

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Originally Posted by waymag
Trumpy is still an apprentice

And what brings you to that conclusion, Wayne?.

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I'm falling behind. I've been on the road the last few weeks and I could not think of the name of the website to look for it. Oui Vey! I saw a T-shirt that said, "When I grow up, I want to be an electrician.":D

All kidding aside, It is hard to find good help and it is only getting harder. If you have the ambition, mechanical aplititude, and are willing to pay the dues, go for it. You ambition is something that is lagging in many others.

Remember safety first, safety always. Find a reputable company to learn the trade and remeber the number one cardinal rule of electrical work. That is, "Always assume that what you are working on is hot." In other words test before you touch. Back feed sucks. Second rule is never trust another electrician then he or she tells you the power is off. I have plenty of wire cutters which is now wire stripers plus it violates rule 1.

do not try to memorize the code but learn how to use and interpret the code. It is good to know where to look in the code. As you start to learn the code, you will start to see contridiction within. If you know how to interpret the code and the intention of the code, live will be better for you. I try to keep my nose in it as much as possible. It always changing.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
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Just givin ya a hard time.....you are the hardest working fella on here.

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LOL!!! I just saw this. I was busting your balls. I always messed with ya. How you been?

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AhHa...
A blast from the past. Welcome back to ECN



John
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I started at the ripe old age of 17. crazy

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Started when I was 18 years old! smile

Last edited by Admin; 02/09/19 10:41 PM.
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Hi guys, I also started at 17.

Here in Germany, depending on the type of school you visit before, you can start an apprenticeship from early as 15 which is also the legal minimum.

The decision that my Job had to be something electrical was already made when I was still in single digit age.
The hardest part was actually the first months of the apprenticeship, manual metalwork. Days of filing, grinding, sawing.
Being an apprentice in an industrial plant, most of my work was indoors, unlike a classical el. contractor working in buiding construction. I imagine the weather and temperature being quite a hard part when you are in construction.

Funny, i just realised filing metal and filing paperwork is the same word in english.

Last edited by andey; 02/12/19 08:28 AM.
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Ah well, the final exams were a hard part too. The company where i was an apprentice didn't really teach us anything except we were taking part in the daily work life, while in other companies the kids really had people teaching them electrical theory.

How is it done in the US? Do electrical contractor apprentices visit classes?
Over here, most apprenticeships run parallel in the business and a public vocational school. Depending on the type of Job, you go to vocational school 1 day per week, or you do blocks of 2 weeks school, 6 weeks work, and so on.
You would basically have to intensify what you learned in the 2 weeks school during the following 6 weeks work, with the help of your trainer. But we didn't have a dedicated trainer and we just worked and forgot much from school, until the next school block started.

Last edited by andey; 02/12/19 09:13 AM.
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