ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade Business Related Discussion contracts for bid

Have you found those to be good leads? It has always been my impression that a bulk of those leads are price shoppers. You do the time to get a good price and they thanklessly use it to beat down the guy who they were planning on using all along.

Quite honestly, I'd love to hear some success stories about landing jobs from cold leads like those. All of my good work has always come from a reference. I've gotten some good service call work out of a listing in the yellow pages.... That's not an ad, just the one-line listing I get with my premium commercial phone line, which was my only option because I am renting a small office from my uncle in a commercially zoned building. That's an occasional call here and there; trust me the phone isn't ringing off the hook. All other work is referral. But that takes time in business to work up to.

I've put together plenty of bids from Blue Book leads, and I became convinced the lack of a relationship with the contractors meant my likelihood of getting the job was extremely low. I never got one. If I had gotten it, I probably would have been lower than I really wanted to be.

I guess it could be similar to fidelity in a marriage. You want a GC that can appreciate what you bring to the table (provided you do). You want someone who trusts your competence, your ethic and your price and realizes the value of having a good sub relationship. I like to avoid the GC who will cheat for the next good-looking price that walks by.

http://www.isqft.com/


We had a local company that was like a bluebook company and distributed bid invitations and plans. They went out of biz and now we are dealing with isqft.........
It has been days of frustration trying to figure out their apparently new software system and Onscreen Takeoff.

Most of my project leads come from companies who I have built relationships with. No doubt about that but I am always looking for new companies to chase and open invitation bids are a good way to get there. Lets say I take the time to bid something and even run out a number that I know is high. I now have a name of an estimator and/or project manager at XYZ construction and I have something to call them about..... The project and my bid to them. We now have something in common. That can lead to me getting my foot in the door. After a few bids I can then say something like; "Hey, you know I have bid a few things to you and talked to you on the phone a few times but we have never met. How about I take you guy's out for lunch one of these day's."

My point is; It's a whole lot easier and more comfortable to use that kind of a stratagy to win the confidence of a G.C. that way than it is to stop by their office and drop off a couple of cards and a flyer.
Cold calls are one of the toughest things to do IMO.

Online bid invitations are here and here to stay. It is just much easier and cheaper to put documents out there and put the cost of printing or managing those documents on the subs. Rather than running off a bunch of copies for distribution.

I've been finding out that some retail developement in my county is a situation where GCs or developers took bids from anyone interested and then used the prices to hammer their preferred contractors. "Here's what this company bid, can you match that?" The preferred guy may be finishing a job and wanting to keep some money flowing will take it, even if it knocks his margin down a point or two. In fact, a lot of companies are doing good if they can make 10 percent. Some slim pickins but a job beats no job.

JPS1006 wrote:

about landing jobs from cold leads like those. All of my good work has always come from a reference

I want to build on references and "networking", as well. As you noted, people perusing a website may only be concerned with low bid, since they have nothing else to judge you by, not knowing you from Adam.

I've done a bit of work on Pogue projects, which is why I keep mentioning them. For example, they get the lion's share of school projects in this area. They are number one with many of the outlying school districts. And they are wrench-tight with SHW, a design, architecture, and engineering management firm. So, they pretty much get their pick of the work and, though they do bring on new subs once in a while, it's usually based on a previous relationship. In the case of my former employer, he had been proj. supt. and gen. supt working on a number of Pogue projects. When he started his own company, he was competitive in the bid but also referenced by the previous years of working together. And I can't blame them. With a millions of dollars at stake, you want the winning horse.

"a job beats no job."

That is true if your working for someone, when your in business you have to meet your cost of doing business, and make a profit in order to continue with the business, if you accept jobs within a narrow margin of profit, for any length of time, there will be no business, and what if an un expected cost comes up, or a time delay, how will you adjust to that, a good GC will want strong subs, in good finincal condition, it is to his advantage and his clients, for everyone on the job to be in good finincial health.

if you accept jobs within a narrow margin of profit, for any length of time, there will be no business, and what if an un expected cost comes up, or a time delay, how will you adjust to that, a good GC will want strong subs, in good finincal condition

I agree. My former employer bids kind of slim, in order to get the work, with the hopes of getting a fatter margin, later. Even though this wasn't our disagreement and I never debated him on his estimating, I feel that if you bid the margin that makes your company solvent and provide value for what you charge, your reputation will help garner business, later. It does no good if you low-ball, get the contract, then can't afford to finish it. And I'm not saying we would have to charge for a small change order of moving a plug, or even adding one during rough-in. I could give away a couple as a good will gesture, especially if I'm making the margin that is comfortable. But if, as we're installing lights and someone wants a change the requires re-piping say 300 feet of pipe, I would have to charge for that. One of the GC supts I have dealt with brags about talking small contractors down from their original estimate, not because he really thinks they are over-charging but because he thinks it makes him look good to everyone else.

I worked with him last December when my employer was first starting. I was a W-9, sole proprietorship for the labor and did much of the work myself. And this GC Supt. was telling me I ought to make a little less an hour, to "help out others and help secure more jobs". I politely let him finish his spiel and changed the subject when convenient. According to my former employer, I ticked this guy off, even though I was polite and even-mannered with him, even as he would fly into emotional fits of rage.

Well, I can be polite but I don't "kiss butt". The best I can do is keep quiet. People will hire you if you are professional and worth what they pay you, though the "bottom line" has a big influence, too.

Reputation and Commercial Work.

Yes reputation is important, but it does not go as far as you would like it to go. The problem is the staff that quotes jobs for a GC is not always the same staff that runs the jobs; there are Estimators/Salesmen and there are Project Managers/Superintendents and for some reason they don’t talk to each other.

With some contractors, it does not matter what kind of dog a subcontractor may be, if he has low bid on bid day, he gets used. Then after the GC gets the job, his number is shopped around and if a better contractor won’t take it for his number, then he gets the contract. I have seen this over and over, there are no loyalties on bid day, and everyone forgets your reputation long enough to get the lowest price.

Where your reputation comes into play is with negotiated jobs, and design builds, which are some of the best jobs you can get.

ITO,

I know I've read the term Negotiated work before and knew in context what it was, but can you refresh me on what type of arrangement that is?

Negotiated Work is when an owner doesn't want open bid and trusts the judgement of a GC who may shop the project around to two or three of his preferred subs. Negotiation enters into it in how alternates are priced and how each sub can deliver a finished product by their various means. This is a lot of work for the sub, providing total estimate and also providing everything as an alternate with unit pricing or totals for each alternate, such as, roughing in with pipe and wire as opposed to MC and also various phases, such as Phase A, Phase B. I've heard them called give backs. The owner decides they want some one else for another phase or decides they want the cheaper alternate on lighting. Sometimes, this can make the contract rather fluid. It's kind of tough receiving $50k to start and then have to give back $10k because they've deleted a few classrooms in a wing, or some such.

A sub can take a beating, though GC didn't feel a thing.

I bid a cafe remodel in a Sam's Club. The GC called me to 'talk' about my price. He said I was higher than his budget could allow. He then asked if I brought the job in under the amount of hours I had estimated could I give him a refund for some of the 'unused' hours. I asked, "If I underestimated the amount of hours needed can I bill you more at the end ?"

He said, "Yeah, that's what you all say."