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#158905 - 09/22/06 06:25 AM Bid for supermarket  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 830
NC
I have just recieved an invitation to bid on a local supermarket chain in my area. I can't really bid on it, not enough time before bid due date, etc. etc. The sq. ft. of the area is 17000. Any out there had any experience in bidding on something like this? I know there is no way without more spec's to bid something like this, but in a ball park figure, what do you think something like this would bid for? $ 30, 40, or $50,000 maybe? Thanks Steve...


Business, Office, Estimating, Legal:

#158906 - 09/22/06 06:43 AM Re: Bid for supermarket  
Dnkldorf  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
nowhere usa
What's involved, remodel or new building?

Give us a little info..

Could easily be 3 times your "guesstamite".


#158907 - 09/22/06 08:48 AM Re: Bid for supermarket  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
If you haven't already done enough work in supermarkets to already be familiar with their needs... avoid it.

Supermarkets have two types of complications: electrical and 'political.'

The electric's major complication is the generator, and associated critical circuits.

The 'political' involves major chains having 'standard' floor plans (giving a huge advantage to the guy who has already done a few), and decision making taking place at some farr-off corporate office.


#158908 - 09/22/06 08:55 AM Re: Bid for supermarket  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 830
NC
It's a new installation. I'm not going to bid on it. A little over my head right now. Just curious as to the range of price to see if in the future I might want to consider it. Thanks Steve..


#158909 - 09/22/06 05:11 PM Re: Bid for supermarket  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
About 80,000 Sq ft super market out of the ground about $600,000 electrical

Reno is right those that have done them know what it will cost.

There is a lot to them.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#158910 - 09/22/06 05:18 PM Re: Bid for supermarket  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
I was thinking some more on this and realized my price was about 5 years old.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#158911 - 09/22/06 05:48 PM Re: Bid for supermarket  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 830
NC
Wow!!!! Glad I didn't take the time, if I would have had the time, to figure that up [Linked Image]
Steve in shock!!!!


#158912 - 09/23/06 03:27 PM Re: Bid for supermarket  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
I'd rate supermarkets as a vicious market:

The plans always will have errors. You make your profit on the extras/ corrections.

The chain has a million tricks to NOT pay for extras.

Competition is brutal: that's why you're invited to bid. The chain wants to use your bid to hammer on the regular players.

First timers will be required to get a performance bond -- usually. Expect to have this bond tapped and you ejected from the job at any time suitable for the chain.

Expect a wild and crazy tempo and the need to man up and down based on their whim.

If you have not learned this specialty while in the pay of another... you'll never make it.

17,000 square feet is no longer deemed enough to be called a supermarket. That scale was passed 40 years ago. 25,000 is considered tiny... 40,000 is tight... 60,000 was the norm as of 2000... now the norm is up towards 80,000 or better.

Figure $ 14 per square foot, or about 18% of the total construction price.

Jobs at this scale are very much different than the small stuff. Just trekking around the site is a labor burden. Figure on never having your materials near to hand -- perhaps they're 350 yards away.... Figure on restaging your materials all the time. Figure on working in the dark. Figure on poor temp power with overloads and outages pretty common. Figure on poor trades coordination and a superintendent in way over his head. Figure on GC getting the site elevation wrong. Figure on the weather breaking wrong ... too hot, too cold, to wet. Figure on a cash flow nightmare as the chain stalls on payment to extract concessions. Figure on cut sheets and plan submittals to be wrong -- way wrong.

Figure on needing a General Foreman who's built for this chain or similar and of whom you have complete trust.

Don't get caught building these 'out of town'. You'll need to be close to all manner of distributor support.

Other than that, building grocery stores for the major chains is a breeze.


Tesla

#158913 - 09/23/06 10:14 PM Re: Bid for supermarket  
PE&Master  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 138
TX, USA
I agree $15/ft sq is a pretty good ball park price.

Be wary of working for out of town (or state) GC's they know they won't be back and will stiff you every chance they get, whether it's in writing or not.

Never sign a no-lien contract.

Cross out the non-performance contract part where the GC can hire a replacement electrical contractor and make you pay for his work and warranty his work.

Read that stuff carefully.


#158914 - 09/24/06 12:31 PM Re: Bid for supermarket  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Boy Tesla has nailed right on the head.

Example.

Each year we build a few new out of the ground supper markets and remodel a few more for a large chain.

We where all set to start a small remodel ($180K Electrical) well they got a new player to take it for $30K less than us.

OK fine we don't need the practice.

Now this other EC had never worked for the chain or supermarkets in general.

They lost their shirt, they goofed up the wiring caused a lot of product to spoil.

Short story is we where paid T&M to fix it all and that T&M came out of the other ECs pocket.

If you have not done one.....run, run quickly.

[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 09-24-2006).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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