ECN Forum Forums Safety Discussion and News Occupational Safety Discussion long time no see all, heres a one from work tuesday night.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of this whole thing and how the company handles it. I am hearing from reliable sources that the Maint management is trying to cover for him and everything else. With excuses like he didn't have a lock out yet or wasn't LOTO trained yet. Well if thats the case he shouldn't have been up there to begin with. Then they were asking all of us if we had it locked out before he came up. I said no we were troubleshooting the ckt and we found problem then told him we needed to shut it down and he said no wait i will come up. I think they are going to try to brush this under the rug because they don't want to look for another supervisor. I am not out to get the guy fired i just feel he should be wrote up and giving formal training so this doesn't happen agian. what are your thoughts.

Well then according to there logic if he was not loto trained according to the OSHA link he was not QUALIFIED to touch it right?And what does that have to do with it,HE DIDN'T BOTHER TO SHUT IT DOWN?How do you lock out a fusable disco or MCC while you work on it?Ask them if they ever saw a 480v disco shorted phase to phase on the line side.GOOD LORD IN HEAVEN.Ive see the results on 600v 400a the guy is blind and burnt threw thim across the room and blew two 1200a fuses in the building service entrance.The end of his career.not to mention the fuse holders are probable arc damaged and the fuse may be heating beacuse of resistive contact good job!

[This message has been edited by frank (edited 09-09-2003).]

I know what you mean. Well they are still investigating we had to talk to the saftey manager at work today. The guy tells me, he thinks alot of the stuff leading up to the guy changing the fuse was done wrong and that i should have had the system shut down. I told him i did nothing wrong that i was trobleshooting the system and iam aloud to do it live. Remember this is our saftey guy he says you show me were it says that in osha document i said if you are qualified then you can. He says ya a qualified electrician, i say i have a degree in industrial electrical maintenance and over 10yrs experience as well as LOTO training i think that makes me qualified. I told him you show me were it says you can change a 480v 100amp fuse in a live ckt that has just blown a fuse. He says i can't because your not aloud. I told him everything was being done safely and appropriatly until my boss said not to shut the system down and took over the job. This is a whole bunch of @#$%. Here us guys were tying to do something to be safe and this is turning in to a run around and abunch of crap.

(small edit - @#$% )

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 09-10-2003).]

Should not matter if it was energized or not he must take any and all actions to make sure it is de-energized before HE works on the equipment,but he knew that because he told you to not shut down.Again by their own addmission he was not LOTO trained,not that it matters here since he was working at the point of diconnection.How can they put a person in charge on the floor without the most basic of saftey training?Even if they don't care about the employees they should care about the lawsuits and fines.You are right they are wrong.Looks like you have only two things you can do.Keep pushing the argument and risk getting the "Golden Bullseye"(this is where management starts picking at everything you do) or let him kill himself and the company get its ass fined off.Your safety manager can consult the AHJ inspection dept Im sure they would have a few directives.Watch out for your job they may decide to make life hard if you force the issue.Good luck


[This message has been edited by frank (edited 09-10-2003).]

frank,
I agree with your comments totally!.
Bear in mind that life can be made just as hard for THEM too, if they want to go about things this way!.

i know what you guys mean, and if they want to play hard ball then bring it on. Iam not a little kid and i am tired of the games. I am getting copies of osha documents and anything else i can to cover my ass. I told them yesterday this is not a witch hunt we aren't out to get the guy fired or prove a point to management. Its the simple fact that i told them if this guy continues to do stuff like this he is going to get some one killed not injured killed. I told the HR lady i don't wan't my wife getting that call and have to explain it to my 4 kids. Our last boss was a good guy every time he came up to a machine you were working on first thing he ask was is it locked out if not he would say lock it out.

If you question someone like this guy, you are already in trouble. They will gang up and try to insult, berate and discredit you and then build a case against you. You will become the problem. Don't look for help from your co-workers because they all have someone to support and feed. Best to stay clear of this guy, and let him learn the hard way. The company will always take the we did nothing wrong position. What makes them right; is deep pockets, and the ability to document a unique list of excuses and blame. Large corporate safety programs appear to be established for show not practice. Corporations that practice safety usually have better employees along with increased production, and less down time.
Good Luck

OK Scott Breath one, two three....To say the the main person in charge of the LOTO program is not trained in LOTO. Well let's just think about it. In this day and age suppose something had happened to JM. He requests permission to lock out a panel. Get's denied the permission and the works on the circuit live. Then something horrible happens to JM. Well you can guess that his wodow would own the company.

Also suppose that something happened to the supr. Then the supervisors family sued the company. What defense do they have. Well he wasn't LOTO trained??? Why was he not trained on LOTO? when he should be in charge of the LOTO program?

I am sure that I will have more to say tomorrow when I calm down.
Scott

Well gentelmen the crap hit the fan today. When we got to work we were all called in seperately to a meeting with HR, Maint manager and Assistante Maint manager. All the people who filled out a report were given a level 3 write up and told that they saw a hazardous situation and let it happen. Know one knows what the supervisor who pulled the fuse got all i know is hes still our boss and working. The 3rd shift supervisor that witnessed it was wrote up but didn't tell what level he got. Now bear in mind that a level 3 is up there, if we go to a level 4 we could be fired its the company's decision. So 5 people possible a six or seventh have been given level 3's and this guy is still in charge of the shift even though he pulled the fuse. To me that aint right if it was so sever and hazardous that you give out 5 level 3's this guy shouldn't have been there today. This isn't over by far..............

If it was me, I'd go talk to an attorney. I believe you have been dumped on for blowing the whistle and there are federal laws against that. It clear your management has said, "Don't bother us again or else" so several of you are at risk anyway. Might as well make a Federal case out of it. You really don't have much to lose and a win might straighten out the company.