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Part P -- 2 years on #146542
01/15/07 08:04 PM
01/15/07 08:04 PM
P
pauluk  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Statement from the government on the introduction of Building Regs. Part P, January 1, 2005:

Quote
Part P is being introduced in order to reduce the number of deaths, injuries and fires caused by defective fixed electrical installations.


I now refer the honorable members of this forum to Hansard written answers for November 6, 2006:
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmhansrd/cm061106/text/61106w0038.htm

(About one-third of the way down the page).

Recorded fatalities in the home attributed to electrical causes:

4/2001 thru 3/2002 = 4
4/2002 thru 3/2003 = 5
4/2003 thru 3/2004 = 3
4/2004 thru 3/2005 = 10
4/2005 thru 3/2006 = 13

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Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146543
01/16/07 02:11 PM
01/16/07 02:11 PM
U
uksparx  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 47
Egremont,Cumbria,UK
Exactly!!!! It has done diddly squat in that respect, or any other that I am aware of. I know for a fact that people are still "doing it themselves" and don't care.
Dave

Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146544
01/18/07 04:06 PM
01/18/07 04:06 PM
G
geoff in UK  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 191
UK
Sadly though, in this sort of situation, the usual government reaction seems to be, "This legislation isn't working; we had better try more of it".

Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146545
01/18/07 06:06 PM
01/18/07 06:06 PM
P
pauluk  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
How true. [Linked Image] Even when it was the government legislation which created the problem in the first place.

Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146546
01/22/07 03:19 AM
01/22/07 03:19 AM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,247
SI,New Zealand
Paul,
I have a bone to pick with them figures.
Are the deaths from faulty appliances, faulty wiring or a combination of the two?.
13 deaths per capita doesn't sound that bad really, but having said that, it is 13 deaths too many.
Has Part P really caused these deaths?.
Who inspects these deaths in the UK in a Domestic situation?.
Now here is a very WIDE generalisation from me in New Zealand.
I take it that a lot of people in the UK hate rules and laws, for the sake of them.
I can agree with that.
But, where it pertains to your personal safety, you are on top.
We have an interpretation of the Regs here and it says:
Quote
Everyone that recieves an Electrical Supply is entitled to a safe Electrical Supply and protection of that same Supply.

It used to be Regulation 7 in 1976.
To be honest Paul, you guys are going through what we went through in 1992.
We have idiots here, I'm inpsecting houses wired by these clowns. [Linked Image]

Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146547
01/23/07 06:33 AM
01/23/07 06:33 AM
K
Kenbo  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 233
Scotland
My view on this situation is it shows people are not prepared to pay for their own safety.

Add the exrta cost of inspection, paperwork, etc to the price of the work and people just do not want to pay for it. It just encourages more "cowboys" while penalising the genuine tradesman.

Not that we do not require some kind of regulations. The lesser the financial cost of policing it the more effective they will be.

Kenny


der Großvater
Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146548
01/23/07 08:25 AM
01/23/07 08:25 AM
P
pauluk  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
Are the deaths from faulty appliances, faulty wiring or a combination of the two?.


The Hansard extract suggests that the figures are all fatalities in the home attributed to electrical causes.

So allowing for the fact that Part P doesn't cover appliances, extension cords, or even a lot of work on fixed wiring, just what was it intended to achieve, given the very low figures before its introduction?

I'm not sure about deaths from fire attributed to electrical causes, but the overall fatality rate by electrocution in the U.K. is pretty low. The last figures I saw I think it was under 100 per year. Given that most of those deaths are from accidental contact with overhead lines, industrial shocks, and so on (i.e. all things which Part P doesn't cover anyway), the actual fatality rate from things which Part P would have prevented (if fully enforced) is absolutely minimal.

Quote
Has Part P really caused these deaths?.

I don't know, but it's interesting that the figures have increased noticeably since its introduction. I think we need to see how the figures go in another year or two.

Quote
Who inspects these deaths in the UK in a Domestic situation?.

I think that any deaths in the home would just be down to the local coroner (unless foul-play was suspected, of course, making it a police matter).

Quote
I take it that a lot of people in the UK hate rules and laws, for the sake of them.

It's certainly getting that way. Especially when people see the rules as being nothing more than an exercise in increasing bureaucracy and an excuse to extort more money in taxes and fees.

Don't forget that we've heard stories of some local councils charging over £200 for a Part P building regs. application.

Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146549
01/24/07 04:43 AM
01/24/07 04:43 AM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,247
SI,New Zealand
Sorry Paul,
I hadn't read the thread properly before I posted.
I must say that I agree with Geoff, it seems to be the way that Government is heading anywhere these days.
We used to have a good system in NZ, until the Government thought it cost too much and it could be made more "efficient" and pass the savings onto the lowly consumer.
Well, power prices since then have climbed by at least 25%, if not more!.
Personally, these public servants should stick to what they should be doing, making life easier for thier constituents, not harder!.
It may have escaped them here in NZ, but it is election year.
Good Lord!. [Linked Image]

{BTW, I'm not looking to make this a political thing, but when people stick thier noses in where it is not warranted or wanted, I'm willing to speak up, if it ain't broke, don't try and fix it!}.

Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146550
01/24/07 08:46 AM
01/24/07 08:46 AM
J
johno12345  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 97
United Kingdom
My building control charge almost £200 for a notification. They also require an EIC to be issued by a competent electrician. They state that if it is DIY then the DIYer must pay the electrician to issue the certificate. Its just too expensive and convoluted.

It is probably good DIYers that do a good job anyway that pay and idiots that havn't got a clue dont bother notifying.

I suspect that it causes more bad DIY.

The only thing that is probably keeping the fatailities down is that you can still freely buy cable, sockets, MCBs and the such like.


I took my time, I hurried up, The choice was mine, I didn't think enough
Re: Part P -- 2 years on #146551
01/24/07 10:10 AM
01/24/07 10:10 AM
P
pauluk  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Quote
They state that if it is DIY then the DIYer must pay the electrician to issue the certificate.


Have you challenged them on this? If so, what was the response?

I'm just about fed up with these local council bureaucrats who think they can make up their own rules as they go along when they have no legal authority to do so. [Linked Image]

It seems that several councils are still trying to enforce this approach. There was one (I forget where) mentioned on the IEE site a few months ago, and when somebody challenged the senior building officer there he admitted that they had no authority to enforce this "rule," but that they didn't want the general public to realize that -- And they are still telling people that they need to pay for their own certification. The arrogance of some of these people never ceases to amaze!

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