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Re: Plan p & costs to customer #141778 01/10/05 08:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline
Member
I've now received a copy of the leaflet the council is sending out in response to requests. Mine lists five of the Norfolk authorities on the front, but has a note on the back "Reproduced by kind permission of the Local Authorities of Wessex." It seems that people in other areas have received a similar leaflet, so presumably this has been passed around the country.

Most of the notes just explain what we already know, but there is one aspect which stands out:
Quote
2. Submit a Building Regulation application to the Local Authority:

A. Where an electrician registered with a recognised trade body such as NICEIC, ECA or NAPIT (who need not be registered under a Competent Person's Scheme) tests the work and issues a design, installation and test certificate under BS7671. Building Control will accept the certificate as evidence that the work complies with PART P. Additional inspections by Building Control may also be carried out in conjunction with the acceptance of a certificate
OK, let's stop there a moment. They're saying the certificate will be accepted, but they might come and inspect themselves anyway? [Linked Image]
Quote
B. Where the work is carried out by an unregistered electrician or is a DIY installation, the applicant is required to have the work inspected and tested by a registered electrician as in A. above and obtain the relevant certificates.
Now hold everything. Where does part P or any other section of the Building Regs. state that? As I read it, the owner has an obligation to notify building control. It's then up to the local authority to inspect if they want to.

What they're trying to say here is that somebody must notify building control, carry out the work, then pay to have a registered electrician inspect and test, then pay the council fee on top of that as well! [Linked Image]

Of course, this is also completely at odds with the information I've already been given by my local council. Yet more utter confusion and contradictions! [Linked Image]

Anyhow, I'll now turn to part of the last e-mail I received:
Quote
The leaflet has now been printed and a copy is in the post to you. I have also included a Building Notice application form which I suggest you use for any electrical installation work that requires consent from the Local Authority. As you will see the form can be completed by either the property owner or yourself acting as their agent.
Well, first of all, maybe I'm becoming too ready to attack anything to do with this whole mess that is part P, but what's with the "work that requires consent" line?

Part P introduces an obligation to notify the local authority of certain electrical work. We do not have to ask permission to carry out such work. Am I just being too sensitive, or are councils assuming they have more powers than they do?

The last part of the above quote and the forms to which it refers seem to show quite clearly that the obligation to notify building control rests with the owner, not the person physically doing thw work. The latter may act as an agent for the former, but that's about it.

I'd already decided the route I'm going to take, and that last item just confirms it.

I shall inform people of the new rules under part P, for it would be remiss of me to do otherwise. I'll make it quite clear that in my opinion the whole scheme is unworkable, largely unenforcable, and a waste of time, but that of course I stand by the quality of my work and have no qualms about it being inspected by anybody.

I shall make it very clear that I am not about to start acting as an informant to local government, and will not be notifying building control of wiring work (unless the person expressly requests me to do so as his agent of course). I shall leave everybody in no doubt that if they don't want to inform building control, that's fine with me.

As somebody over on the IEE forum suggested, we have a new scheme involving no extra cost to the customer, to be known by the acronym C.O.R. -- Carry On Regardless! [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 01-10-2005).]

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Re: Plan p & costs to customer #141779 01/10/05 11:49 AM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 186
A
aland Offline
Member
Paul, I think I get the message, the whole thing is crap, to many people think they can make a good living off the back of the scheme as usual. Stil maintain that if you fill in the certification required by BS 7671 that should be enough.
We are signing to say that as far as we are aware we have complied fully with BS7671 in the design, insatallation and testing of the installation. What else do they need us to do?

Re: Plan p & costs to customer #141780 01/10/05 08:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
U
uksparky Offline
Member
Way to go Paul. Excellent post.

What a ghastly mess as usual... It really annoys me that the LA's are so hopeless at interpreting legislation...


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!
Re: Plan p & costs to customer #141781 02/10/05 12:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3
A
aardvark Offline OP
Junior Member
Why oh why is there still no publicity out there in the public domain ? Having begged some barely adequate leaflets from the ODPM we now at least have something to show our astonished customers but despite 2 e-mails they have not responded to me.
Where are the TVads & posters in the vein of the pin-striped suited Inland Revenue ads ?
We've had our 1st casualty last week in that our customer simply didn't believe these rules had come into force and knocked us for £250 of her bill !! This was because she didn't believe my husband could not re-energise her pond pump without tracing & correcting other faults on the system !
The installation was a complete nightmare with decades of bodged additions everywhere. daily discoveries of "secret garden" type outbuildings/cupboards full of additional distribution boards threw up endless problems which had to be sorted out. Many sparking catastrophies were made safe but all the customer could see was that jobs A B or C were taking longer than she expected and she wasn't prepared to pay ! Explanations were met with "That's pathetic !" and other such emotive expletives.
Recently read an article in local press which suggests the whole lack of publicity is a deliberate attempt to keep the public in the dark about the Cenelec involvement and thus avoid "federal Europe" tags. That's a lot of consolation. Won't have time to do much more work at this rate as we'll be spending all our time at the small claims court !!

Re: Plan p & costs to customer #141782 02/10/05 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline
Member
Well, I'm pretty quick to criticize some of the stuff that comes out of the CENELEC pool, and always ready to jump on the EU for its idiotic regulations, but in this case isn't the whole part P fiasco entirely a home-grown one? Or have I missed something in the origin of the scheme?

I'm sure it won't come as a surprise when I tell you that of all the people I've done work for so far this year, not a single one has any intention of notifying the council about the work.

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