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#141354 07/26/04 07:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9
S
Junior Member
I can see that Part P is of "topical interest" to say the least! One of my main areas of concern lies with just what criteria will the groups running the Competent persons scheme, set for persons to join? I very much hope that it will not be a situation whereby you spend your money and your in! There are some firms who think that putting all their operatives through the 16th edition regs is enough - without them being first and foremost Electricians. What do guys think? (sorry for my troublesome link!)

#141355 07/27/04 05:08 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 186
A
Member
Steve, just received the application pack for Part P-Competent person scheme from the ECA. The criteria is exactly the same as for becoming a member of NICEIC. You need the following:
1. A copy of BS 7671 and the Memorandum of Guidance on The Electricity at Work Act
2. Health and Safety Policy Statement with Risk Assessments.
3. Evidence that you use written contracts with clients.
4. Evidence of document control, ie demonstrate that you can and do fill in completion certs, test certs and the like.
5. Prove that you have and can use all the required test equipment with calibration certs and amethod of checking for accuracy.
6. Evidence that you maintain a complaints procedure with appropriate documentation.
7. Applicants will need to nominate at least one of their personnel to be the Qualified Supervisor.
8. Hold a public liability insurance policy for a minimum of £2 million.
9. Onec Part P comes into effect you will have to offer clients a warranty cover on all work.
10. Be prepared to have an on site assessment covering a minimum of two installations assessment to cover compliance with the building regulations and in particular BS.7671.
Not forgeting your cheque for £634.50 for the first Qualified Supervisor and £282 for each additional one. All inc Vat of course.

Quote from bottom of Fee Sheet, From Jan 2005, it is a requirement of this scheme that all certificated firms shall provide a declaration to BRE Certification for each completed and notifiable installation (within 14 days of completion of the work), to confirm that the work conforms to BS7671 and Parts 4 and 7 of the building regs. This information will be placed on a database and shared with Government,Local Authorities and the Electrcal Contractors Association. Details of the notification process and the scale of fees will be provided by BRE Certification in December 2004.
All fees will be collected by the ECA on behalf of BRE Certification Ltd.

Did I not say it would be a Nice little earner for the boys. Keeps the pensions topped up. Be interesting to see if B&Q and the Electrical Wholsalers will be required to declare who they sell all the electrical equipment to at weekends. Silly old sod aint I.

#141356 07/30/04 07:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
Member
Quote
7. Applicants will need to nominate at least one of their personnel to be the Qualified Supervisor.
As a matter of interest, how do they apply that to a one-man outfit? Can you supervise yourself?


Quote
Not forgeting your cheque for £634.50 for the first Qualified Supervisor and £282 for each additional one.
Are you hinting that the primary motivation here might be financial? Surely not! [Linked Image]

Quote
All inc Vat of course.
Ah yes, even though most of those registering and likely to be VAT-registered and will just claim the tax back anyway. Got to involve a few more pointless transaction to keep the VAT pen-pushers going. The few registering who aren't VAT-registered and will have to pay the VAT is just a little bonus to the government funds. Not that I'm being cynical, you understand....... [Linked Image]


Quote
Quote from bottom of Fee Sheet, From Jan 2005, it is a requirement of this scheme that all certificated firms shall provide a declaration to BRE Certification for each completed and notifiable installation (within 14 days of completion of the work), to confirm that the work conforms to BS7671 and Parts 4 and 7 of the building regs.
Er.... But haven't we already established that according to the new building regs. there is no requirement to follow BS7671?

#141357 07/30/04 04:10 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 186
A
Member
Paul
Quote:
As a matter of interest, how do they apply that to a one-man outfit? Can you supervise yourself?
--------------------------------------------
Yes if your a one man band, you aspire to the roll of qualifying supervisor amongst other things, with a real value £634.50.

Quote:
Are you hinting that the primary motivation here might be financial? Surely not!
-------------------------------------------
Paul, would I be so synical?

Quote:
Er.... But haven't we already established that according to the new building regs. there is no requirement to follow BS7671?
-------------------------------------------
Paul,
You call it what you want, just post the cheque on the due date and all will be fine!

#141358 08/04/04 06:24 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 186
A
Member
Just found this one on the Voltium web site.
Quote
-------------------------------------
"I am a Building Control Surveyor with a District Council. I take great offence personally and professionally at your suggestion that electrical contractors should "Expect long delays!" if they have to get work approved by building control.

Most Local Authority Building Control teams are highly professional and are very quick to respond to site inspection requests. Generally, requests made before 10am are guaranteed same day visits. Timed appointments can also normally be made. How many electricians (or suppliers) could manage that!

I don't understand why you are trying to scare electricians into membership of self-certification schemes. Promote them by all means, but for the right reasons, not by using fictional rubbish about a service you clearly have no experience of."

The official stance of the LABC is below:

The LABC has stated that "if someone is intending to carry out electrical work and wishes to use the local authority to certify the work as conforming to Part P of the Building Regulations, then they should submit a Building Notice to the relevant Local Authority Building Control Office and their request to inspect and check the work for compliance will be responded to within 48 hours. There will be a charge for this service which is dependent on the value of the electrical work carried out."
-------------------------------------------
Appears to be no need to register with anyone if you care to let the local authority inspect.

#141359 08/05/04 02:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 112
P
Member
I have just had my technical inspection from the ECA and things are looking good for me to be a member,,

i have to say once part p is in force i am looking forward to putting my rates up and reaping the rewards.. lots of contractors around my area are not going to bother to register for part p..

i have also heard that the local council will use registed electrical contractors to inspect the work of those who are not.... dont know if this is true .. if so looking forward to being a nominated contractor,, and charging accordingly.... loads of money..

the thing is it has its faults but it is a start for us to get rid of the cowboys and diy'ers doing there extensions etc..

I have not long quoted a job,, a new house timber framed,, the customer rang me to say i was the lucky electrician to win the contract and would like me to start asap.. i said yes would be in 2 weeks,, ok he said.. 2 days later he rang me to say he would not require me because he would be doing the job with his nephew,,,, cheers mate.. hope you put nails in all your stuffin cables

#141360 08/08/04 06:18 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
Member
Quote
submit a Building Notice to the relevant Local Authority Building Control Office and their request to inspect and check the work for compliance will be responded to within 48 hours. There will be a charge for this service which is dependent on the value of the electrical work carried out."
I wonder how much the charge is going to be?

Quote
i have to say once part p is in force i am looking forward to putting my rates up and reaping the rewards.
I'm not so sure that increasing rates would be that beneficial to you. If you're going to price yourself out of the ballpark against non-registered sparkies then you may end up losing work. If a non-registered sparky plus the cost of the inspection comes to less than hiring somebody who's registered, then what's the point?

Quote
the thing is it has its faults but it is a start for us to get rid of the cowboys and diy'ers doing there extensions etc..
But how? [Linked Image] Don't get me wrong, I'm all for getting people to understand the error of their ways and improve the safety of their electrical systems, but how is part P going to stop bad DIY work?

DIY extensions will just be done by homeowners and the local council will know nothing about them. We still have a firm grasp on the "Englishman's home is his castle" principle in this country, despite the government's attempts to convince us otherwise.

Sorry, but I'm with Alan on this one. I see this whole scheme as just a badly organized mess designed to make it look as though our "caring" government is addressing some "problem." It's just another bureaucracy-boosting con to extract money, nothing more. [Linked Image]

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