ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Questioning the electrical norms
by Texas_Ranger - 09/22/20 09:33 AM
Smoke & mirrors?
by HotLine1 - 09/21/20 03:42 PM
Pool Lights?
by Papa - 09/18/20 05:26 PM
Ever been afflicted by Gout?
by mbhydro - 09/15/20 05:50 PM
120/208 gives 240? please clarify
by NORCAL - 09/13/20 01:08 AM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 8 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133461 08/11/02 03:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,337
Trumpy Offline OP
Member
I would like input from electricians,
to say wether or not that this legal.
I recently inspected a property, that was
recently built, it had 3phase Mains@ 6mm2
although the range was fed w/ a 2.5mm2,
2C+E,the Hot Water was fed through a
1.0mm2(pilot wire), am I wrong in saying
that this installation, did not comply with
NZS/AS 3000?.
Your input please..

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 09-04-2002).]

Test Equipment:
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133462 08/11/02 07:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,486
T
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member
Although I'm not familiar with your codes, this sounds like a nightmare.In Austria 6 sq mm is already required for a small appartment, and the hot water fed with 1 mm2 cable definitely isn't kosher. How many watts has that thing?

Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133463 08/11/02 09:22 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline
Member
That sounds as though those cables are way undersized.

Most immersion heaters here are 3kW and fed with 2.5mm cable (12.5A load). What loading is the electric range and what size is the OCPD? 2.5 would generally only be suitable for the "Baby Belling" type portable units here. Most ranges are fed with a 30A fuse or C/B and 6mm cable.

Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133464 08/11/02 09:59 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline
Member
Here are the cable ratings for PVC-sheathed multicore as per 1992 IEE Wiring Regs.:

[Linked Image from members.aol.com]

(Sorry it isn't clearer; the table is printed on a gray background.)

As some folk here already know, personally I feel that some of the ratings listed these days are much too high anyway. [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 08-11-2002).]

Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133465 08/20/02 08:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 118
O
old Appy Offline
Member
Hi there Trumpy

"it had 3phase Mains@ 6mm2"

If the Mains cable qualifys after volt drop and current carrying etc..type NS or XLPE, is taken into account then it maybe ok..

"the range was fed w/ a 2.5mm2"2C+E

If it just a wall mounted oven then this is practiced alot, if it has a built in cook top then is a bad thing no way 2.5 is good to 30 amps.

"the Hot Water was fed through a 1.0mm2(pilot wire}"

Not sure what you mean about the pilot wire

"I recently inspected a property"

did you sign it off ?

Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133466 08/21/02 03:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,337
Trumpy Offline OP
Member
Thanks for your input guys,
With re-inspection, the following was
found:
The Range was spread over Two Phases+
neutral, No Earth Conductor.
Hot Water Cylinder was wired with 1.5mm,
solid core( we have not used this type of
wire for YEARS).
Also the H/W was wired to a D Curve (Motor
Rated) MCB,20A.
Also on this installation, it turns out
that the Builder, because all of the
Electricians, were too busy,thought that
he would wire the whole house himself.
It took us a week to actaully re-wire
this house, to bring it up to Regs standard.
I am an Aerial Technician, as well as an
Electrician, and it is only after people
move into these houses, that they cannot get any reception,that I find these other
"problems"," While you are here, can you
have a look at this".
I have put a complaint in to the Electrical
Workers Registration Board, over this one.
To bring this sort of work by un-registered
to light, by God, it needs it.

Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133467 08/21/02 03:45 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,337
Trumpy Offline OP
Member
Re Old Appy's comments:
Installation was fed thru 6mm N/s 3C+
Screening, this was provided by an indepen-
dent contractor, up to the main switch-board.
The Range that I was actually speaking
about was, a free-standing type, these
appliances have a current loading of
30Amps, when supplied by a single phase
supply,(with all equipment turned on)
However,we size our breakers @ 32 Amperes,
and run the circuits for them in 6mm2,
Even spread over @ 2 phases, this would
require a 4mm2,3Core+Earth cable.
With respect to the "Pilot Wire", mate,
the pilot wire, is the wire that feeds the
Main Switch-board, from the Ripple Supply
side of the Metering system, this feeds a
circuit-breaker,normally 20 Amperes.
It is normally run in 2.5mm2 or 4mm2,
depending on the size of the house,
But, it always has at least 4 conductors
in the Pilot Cable, for future requirements.

Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133468 08/21/02 03:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,337
Trumpy Offline OP
Member
Re Old Appy's comments:
Installation was fed thru 6mm N/s 3C+
Screening, this was provided by an indepen-
dent contractor, up to the main switch-board.
The Range that I was actually speaking
about was, a free-standing type, these
appliances have a current loading of
30Amps, when supplied by a single phase
supply,(with all equipment turned on)
However,we size our breakers @ 32 Amperes,
and run the circuits for them in 6mm2,
Even spread over @ 2 phases, this would
require a 4mm2,3Core+Earth cable.
With respect to the "Pilot Wire", mate,
the pilot wire, is the wire that feeds the
Main Switch-board, from the Ripple Supply
side of the Metering system, this feeds a
circuit-breaker,normally 20 Amperes.
It is normally run in 2.5mm2 or 4mm2,
depending on the size of the house,
But, it always has at least 4 conductors
in the Pilot Cable, for future requirements.
With respect to Certification of this
Losers idea of an installation, it was
not certified, until such time, as I was
satisfied, that all of the work was safe.
It took the work of myself and three(3)
apprentices, to correct.
It's all fixed up now guys.

Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133469 08/21/02 06:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 118
O
old Appy Offline
Member
you have to wonder how these installation get connected in the first place?

"With respect to the "Pilot Wire", mate,
the pilot wire, is the wire that feeds the
Main Switch-board, from the Ripple Supply
side of the Metering system, this feeds a
circuit-breaker,normally 20 Amperes.
It is normally run in 2.5mm2 or 4mm2"

Thanks for clearing that up for me, mate

Re: New Houses with the bare minimum Mains #133470 08/21/02 06:54 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline
Member
Quote
With respect to the "Pilot Wire", mate, the pilot wire, is the wire that feeds the Main Switch-board, from the Ripple Supply
side of the Metering system

I'm lost here. Is this some strange system peculiar to NZ? [Linked Image]

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Scott35
Scott35
Anaheim, CA. USA
Posts: 2,721
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 8
NORCAL 3
Popular Topics(Views)
269,983 Are you busy
204,393 Re: Forum
192,611 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3