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#132799 08/27/01 05:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
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pauluk Offline OP
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A trivial question with perhaps an obvious answer to you guys, but as you now know we don't generally use wirenuts over here.

Do you find it better to just put the wires loosely together and then let the wirenut pull them tight, or do you prefer to twist the wires firmly together with pliers first?

How about stranded conductors, or joining solid to stranded? Same method, or different technique?

#132800 08/27/01 06:03 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 1
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pauluk,

Go here for a past thread on this...

I didn't want to rant all over again!

[Linked Image]

I think I'll take some pictures this time!

Hold on...

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 08-27-2001).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
#132801 08/27/01 06:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
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Member
Pauluk,

You probably are unaware of it, but,you are on the verge of starting an international incident. Just dont ask about push-in vs. screw terminals on devices. [Linked Image]

#132802 08/27/01 07:41 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Member
TWIST THEM!



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 08-27-2001).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
#132803 08/27/01 11:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,081
Likes: 3
Member
IMHO - Twist Them, then cut the ends even

'66,

I forgot about you not pre-twisting and just realized why you recommend using pliers on the wirenuts (on the other thread )

I don't think that your method would very easy to do on #10 solids and mixtures with smaller sizes. I'd worry about smaller wires not 'catching' What do the instructions say about twisting?

Bill


Bill
#132804 08/27/01 02:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 43
M
Member
Quote
Originally posted by Redsy:
Pauluk,

You probably are unaware of it, but,you are on the verge of starting an international incident. Just dont ask about push-in vs. screw terminals on devices. [Linked Image]

HEE HEE!
You know, I was going to ask you guys this very question a few weeks back, but after my side/backwire question, I figured I'd let someone else...

Very informative, as usual, everybody-
Thank you.

#132805 08/27/01 07:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
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pauluk Offline OP
Member
Hmm, sorry to be so controversial!

I looked back at some old threads and saw the discussion about push-in vs. screw terminations on receptacles, but not the twist or no-twist wire nuts. Thanks for the recap.

At risk of another international incident, I have to say that I don't much like the idea of push-in terminations, maybe because I grew up without such things here.

First time I even realized these existed was about 14 years ago. I'd not been to the U.S.A. at that time and studied your wiring in detail, but I'd ordered a lot of computer equipment from California, and rigged up a transformer to run everything on 120V. I ordered a U.S. 6-way power strip which consisted of 3 duplex 5-15 recepts. and when I looked inside it I found that these used push-in wiring.

I'm not quite sure exactly what you mean by side-wired and back-wired. Every American receptacle I've ever seen has the screw terminals on the side. Does back-wire mean the push-in type of termination?

#132806 08/27/01 08:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
Hmm, sorry to be so controversial!

to be honest, we seem to go the ditance with controversial topics, fire away Paul!

I'll even throw more fat on the fire by saying that all wirenuts are not IMHO created equal...and matters as applied to preference.

& yes, 'backwired' or 'backstabbed' means the same, the wire being pushed into a slot in the back of the device.
Note that the NRTL's have made this a listing violation for #12 wire, but not #14.

So if I were to wire a home with #14 the NRTL's apparently consider this perfectly safe & compliant.

#132807 08/27/01 08:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 1
Member
Ideal Wire Nuts say "No pre-twisting required" right on the box.

I thought "back-wired" meant that the screw plate tightens the connection like GFCI recepts...

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 08-27-2001).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
#132808 08/27/01 09:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
Likes: 1
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[Linked Image from kellyelectric.electrical-contractor.net]

Which one was pretwisted and which one was not? (Short or long pair)

(Don't flame me for the colors of the wires, I thought the twist would show better with the contrast...)

I used this technique on one pair of wires:

I stripped each wire 1-1/4" and pre-twisted with the lineman's pliers (my first pair... Ideal brand, not "Kleins") Then I snipped the bare twisted ends back to about 5/8" and installed the yellow WireNut by hand until I could tighten no more, then removed it...

On the other pair, I stripped 5/8" off and installed a yellow WireNut by hand three turns, then tightened it an additional 8 turns with the yellow "Ideal WireNut Wrench". Then I removed the wirenut for the photo.

Can you tell which one is which?

Please note:
The pretwisted version only had three scratch lines in each wire from the WireNut spring, whereas the one done "my way" has 9 scratches where the spring grabbed. Three times as many...

Also, viewing into a light, there are voids between the wires on the pre-twisted version, none on "my way"... It's all about contact area and pressure, folks... (With a Cu to Cu connection...)

Oh yes, and if one used improper care when stripping the wire (and they "ring" it even just a little) the wires may break when done "my way"... but I've never had a wire break in many years with the way I strip wires. (Notice the only non-Ideal brand tool is the strippers... Hey I think Klein's are better... I'm not Ideal crazy!)

How about a picture and 1000 words! (sorry)

[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 08-28-2001).]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
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