ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
New tool
by gfretwell - 10/22/20 12:08 PM
Where is Everyone?
by Bill Addiss - 10/17/20 07:04 PM
Beyond Belief
by gfretwell - 09/27/20 12:03 AM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 18 guests, and 18 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Dead Shorts #127093 04/26/01 09:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
sparky Offline OP
Member
Had a 200A 3 ph 208Y120V main blow today due to a dead short in a 20A circuit.

The spike must have had sufficent duration to do this

But the 20A breaker never tripped, and i am at a loss as to explain this
[Linked Image]

any input apprectiated

Tools for Electricians:
Re: Dead Shorts #127094 04/27/01 12:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,961
Bill Addiss Offline
Member
Sparky,

I've seen the same thing happen. I always thought that maybe the main was more sensitive somehow to the characteristics of a dead short.

Bill


Bill
Re: Dead Shorts #127095 04/27/01 01:44 AM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
You said the main blew. I think we are to assume that it was a non-GFI circuit breaker that opened with no damage.

Did both have the same interruptor rating?

If the load through the main was already running 200 A before the fault occurred, it is imaginable. The 20 A CB was cold and the 200 A CB was already warmed up.

Re: Dead Shorts #127096 04/27/01 02:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,961
Bill Addiss Offline
Member
Sparky,

Did it happen when you/someone turned on the 20A breaker?


Bill
Re: Dead Shorts #127097 04/27/01 06:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
sparky Offline OP
Member
Dspark, Bill,
It happened when the 20A was turned on, the panel is new, not loaded up as yet, did not amp it out but should be about 40A usage give or take.

The interupter rating should be more for the main, however, as you pointed out, there was a hand holding the 20A !

So, somehow the main saw enough AIC ?

Does this make sense?

[Linked Image]

Re: Dead Shorts #127098 04/27/01 10:32 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
sparky66wv Offline
Member
I had an apprentice miswire a switched leg... wired it like a switch loop... dead short. I should have been watching him closer...

New House, very little load on the main.
The SQ D 100A main tripped before the 15A lighting CB. I replaced the SQ D 15A breaker while the appy rewired the switch (correctly this time).

I never had a good explanation either, but I didn't take any chances... Breakers can be bad out of the box... Even SQ D


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Re: Dead Shorts #127099 04/27/01 06:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,961
Bill Addiss Offline
Member
Sparky,

That's what I was wondering about. Maybe the hand holding it had something to do with the Main going before the 20A.
Just fishin'

[Linked Image]
Bill


Bill
Re: Dead Shorts #127100 04/27/01 09:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
sparky66wv Offline
Member
I see what Bill's getting at... in fact, yes, being a dead short, my hand was forcing the CB closed at the time...


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Re: Dead Shorts #127101 04/27/01 11:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
It is my understanding that the short circuit trip curves for most breakers 200 amps and less are almost identical and with the normal manufacturing tolerances it is not unusual for a main to trip out before a smaller branch breaker on a short circuit. Holding the handle of a breaker has nothing to do with its trip time. The breaker will open in the same time even if the exterior handle does not move.
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Dead Shorts #127102 04/28/01 09:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
sparky Offline OP
Member
Don,
thanks, i was wondering about those breaker locks on the fire breakers....

this has me wondering about series fault..

[Linked Image]

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
watersparkfalls
watersparkfalls
Washington...Not DC
Posts: 236
Joined: March 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 3
Popular Topics(Views)
270,742 Are you busy
204,967 Re: Forum
193,087 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3