ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
2017 NEC Changes
by HotLine1. 12/11/17 12:10 PM
Casino Wiring methods
by HotLine1. 12/09/17 10:44 AM
Ground wire Size to water Line.
by HotLine1. 12/05/17 12:11 PM
Flexible conduit to an outside Spa
by gfretwell. 12/05/17 12:28 AM
Dimmable LED 2x4 lay in fixtures
by Vulsion. 11/30/17 06:37 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
243,014 Are you busy
179,414 Re: Forum
170,373 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 27 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#124688 - 11/30/06 12:05 PM Ground rod installation  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
This is a particularly good pic of a ground rod installed in compliance with our local practices.

Please note that it differs in the details from the way it is done in most places. In some ways, it is also a good example of what was once, for a period in the '70's, of the "NEC way," though that is no longer the case.

[Linked Image]

You first have to appreciate that our area is both quite rocky, and dry. Our AHJ's want the GEC completely protected by EMT. The rod should be set in the 'drip line' of the roof, to improve the chances that the earth will be moist. The top of the rod needs to be exposed, for inspection. In this case, the nearly flat top of the rod started out as a cone; impacts from the driver flattened it. (And this was an easy one!)

Tools for Electricians:

#124689 - 11/30/06 02:41 PM Re: Ground rod installation  
Ann Brush  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 152
And while we have ensured the electrical equipment is adequately grounded we have also ensured that someone will be going to the hospital for stiches after tripping over or falling onto that rod. I have two little kids and that is a text book case for an accident waiting to happen. NEC compliant or not, if that were my house the rod would be removed or buried completely.

Has a water pipe grounding connector been used to connect to the rod - that's a no-no here?

Edited typo.

[This message has been edited by Ann Brush (edited 11-30-2006).]

#124690 - 11/30/06 02:57 PM Re: Ground rod installation  
sparky806  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 59
Shawnee, KS, USA
That would fail here in Kansas City. All 8 feet of rod must be in contact with earth. 7'-10" doesn't cut it. Also not protected from damage. We all know what a lawn mower blade will do yo it.

#124691 - 11/30/06 05:03 PM Re: Ground rod installation  
Steve Miller  Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 325
Loudoun Cty, VA
That would pass here but once it's inspected it has to be driven the last few inches.

#124692 - 11/30/06 07:40 PM Re: Ground rod installation  
ShockMe77  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
Is the EMT likely to become energized?

I ALWAYS drive the rod down to just below grade level and then clear out some of the dirt around the rod so the AHJ can clearly see it. This way there is no need for a return trip just to drive the rods down to below grade level. And in New Jersey we have to drive (2) ground rods, not one.

#124693 - 11/30/06 08:23 PM Re: Ground rod installation  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Ann, technically speaking, this local practice does not comply with the NEC. The NEC likes them close to the wall, and completely buried.

This location was a rare one, in that there is actually a nice lawn! uauallym the rod location is on a slope, in the middle of a row of shrubs, etc, so the tripping hazard would not exist. If it makes you feel any better, I think the rod is still within a foot of the wall.

The NEC actually used to like the rod at the 'drip line', for better conductivity. Then, as noted here, the gardner started hitting them with the lawnmower- this led to heavier wire, solid wire, and, finally, calling for the wire to be in pipe. That, in turn, led to all sorts of debate over how to connect it to the rod.

As for the 8ft issue, here thay address that by requiring 10ft rods. Of course, many is the time I could only get 6ft. in the ground ... so I usually end up driving two rods [Linked Image]

#124694 - 11/30/06 10:48 PM Re: Ground rod installation  
Ann Brush  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 152
Theoretically speaking what happens if "The wise man built his house upon the rock" literally?

#124695 - 11/30/06 11:06 PM Re: Ground rod installation  
SteveFehr  Offline
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
Chesapeake, VA
You don't have to install the electrode vertically. If you have 6' of soil over bedrock, you can drive that 8' rod at a 45 degree angle. In an extreme case, you can bury it in a horizontal trench.

For a house built on solid rock with no topsoil, I'd venture that a ground rod is probably not the best choice of grounding- other methods are acceptable, too, and installing bonded rebar or a copper loop in the concrete foundation is probably going to be a better bet.

Honestly, I don't know why this isn't done more often. It's trivial for the masons to embed 20' of #6 in the footer, and leave a pigtail for connection at the panel. Why don't we ever see this? It would be well protected and offer an excellent ground- even better if it were also bonded to the rebar.

[This message has been edited by SteveFehr (edited 11-30-2006).]

#124696 - 11/30/06 11:36 PM Re: Ground rod installation  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
We do, Steve ....NOW. While the "Ufer" was developed in WW2, it was not accepted by the NEC until the mid-60's.

Every ground rod I have driven has been for a service upgrade- where the older system had only a "water bond."

#124697 - 12/01/06 05:39 AM Re: Ground rod installation  
iwire  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
John I could not walk away from that.

I see someone tripping on that rod or worse tripping on something else and landing face first on that rod.

On a construction site that would need a 'rod cap' to protect workers from injury.

I understand each area has their own practices but in my opinion leaving the rod sticking up like that is asking for injury's.


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 12-01-2006).]

Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
Sebago, ME, USA
Posts: 109
Joined: January 2005
Show All Member Profiles 

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman


Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.019s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8199 MB (Peak: 0.9954 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-12-12 17:51:47 UTC