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#122625 - 12/17/05 10:32 PM Inside or Outside?  
Admin  Offline

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,458
A restaurant was recently built. Part of the job involved building a walk-in cooler. The customer bought virtually all their equipment in a single lot from a distant merchant, much of this equipment prooved to be worthless.

Among the equipment were the cooling units for the cooler. The cooler itself was assembled from panels found at the local surplus yard.

With all that as a preface, please look at the installation- and the way the machinery has been placed under the roof overhang.

Is this an outside (wet) location- or just a (damp) protected one? What's your call?

- renosteinke
[Linked Image]

{Sorry Bill and John, just corrected a few spelling errors, made the post hard to read, hope you don't mind, Mike. [Linked Image]}

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-18-2005).]

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#122626 - 12/17/05 10:36 PM Re: Inside or Outside?  
Admin  Offline

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,458

[Linked Image]

#122627 - 12/18/05 12:50 AM Re: Inside or Outside?  
NORCAL  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 873
The controls on condensing units are usally NEMA 1, so is a "damp" location ok?

BTW, that Zinsco/Sylvania switchboard should have gone to salvage yard. [Linked Image]

#122628 - 12/18/05 04:05 AM Re: Inside or Outside?  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
The closer look helps a lot.
Is this your pet restaurant?. [Linked Image]
However, there are a few things here that I aren't comfortable with.
The first being rigid steel conduit going into a refrigeration unit, the reason I say that John is because of vibration, here we would use a Non-metallic flexible conduit and run an extra ECC to the unit.
Secondly, that Evaporation unit should have a cover over it, a 3 sided one I mean, they run better that way.
And it keeps things from falling on the unit and jamming and burning out the fan motor.
Believe me, I've been through this rigmarole!, birds like the humming sound.
John did you do the pipe work there?.
Maybe it's the camera angle, but something looks out of square??.
Double padlocks?, I hope you've got keys mate!.
BTW, you left your steps on the roof. [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-18-2005).]

#122629 - 12/18/05 09:34 AM Re: Inside or Outside?  
electure  Offline

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,262
Fullerton, CA USA
The way I've heard (not official, mind you) is that generally anything in an area within a line taken at 45° from the edge of the eave to the building can be considered a damp location. Anything outside of that line is a wet location.

#122630 - 12/18/05 11:30 AM Re: Inside or Outside?  
PCBelarge  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
I agree with Scott, the UL test is for 45 degrees. I would consider this a wet location.

Pierre Belarge

#122631 - 12/18/05 12:25 PM Re: Inside or Outside?  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Yes, Mike, this is the place that caused me so much grief.

And, yes, I am guilty of the pipe-work. The lower box is actually a disconnect for the compressor- the handle assembly is what makes it look a little "off" from this angle.

There is one line coming from that box that looks pretty sloppy; that is a length of liquid-tite to the compressor (the vibration issue). The other pipe near it- the one with two 90's- actually goes to the back of a receptacle, which in turn enters the top of the cooler. This was my routing for the internal wires.

Good call on the switchgear...I had the devil's own time getting breakers for it- and had to actually make some parts myself. Remember the thread where someone made a piece using a 4-square cover? Same type of gear, same situation (though mine are exact reproductions of the factory pieces).

As for the double padlocks....they even fooled the PoCo. They actually don't lock a blessed thing; there is no way to actually lock the doors. Sure look intimidating, though!

I would have loved to replace the switchgear. This property, however, is rented under what we call |triple net" terms. In short, all the landlord is obligated to do is cash the rent check. As you might expect, this means the tenant is rather reluctant to spend the $10K needed to replace the gear, or the $15K to replace the broken heating unit (the reason for the ladder atop the cooler).

Since the cooler is essentially a "home-made" unit, there is no engineering data available for snow load. As a result, the city is requiring that an independent roof be built. That will solve the 'indoor/outdoor' issue at the same time.

The city is also requiring that an acces hatch, or other permanent means of roof access, be built.

Finally, thanks for correcting my (sometimes) awful typing!

#122632 - 12/18/05 01:55 PM Re: Inside or Outside?  
sierra electrician  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
Double padlocks, (1) for PoCo & (1) for customer entry.

#122633 - 12/20/05 04:56 AM Re: Inside or Outside?  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Considering the horizontal driving rain I had here yesterday, I say everthing there is WET! (We even had a tornado warning...)

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#122634 - 12/20/05 08:42 AM Re: Inside or Outside?  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
John, I would never kick a man when he is down.
That cabinet is out of square, mate.
Other side of the coin John, I've looked at these pics, but something still looks "not right", I can't put my finger on it!. Arggh. [Linked Image]

Other question springing to mind would be, what's in the enclosure with the padlocks?.
Any chance of a pic?.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 12-20-2005).]

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