ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Photos for General Discussion New Panelboard- Comments please?

Picture submitted by magoo66:




Thanks Jeff!.

Critique away folks.

2 romexes per clamp doesn't fit my style.

Wire ties make for a neat layout but I find I ended up cutting most of them if I have to troubleshoot a panel.

Looks nice...BUT (and not to bash the installer), why the need for wire ties on solid wire? The wires are nice and straight and will support themselves w/o the ty-wraps.


It IS a very nice job...everyone should be so diligent in "what's behind the scenes". (Even the switch box to the left is a classy install)

This install is actually done EXACTLY as suggested in NECA's 'workmanship' standard.

The two cables per clamp is in cmpliance with the UL listing. Such information is found on the box the clamps came in.

When I end up troubleshooting on a job like this, yes, I cut the cable ties, but I replace them afterwards, one of the overlooked facts about such a neat installation is it encourages those who come after to emulate the work.

Beautiful job. Be proud.

Dave

A big thumbs up, this is a work of art! Someone has a lot of skill and pride in workmanship for sure!

With that said, since it looks like the feeder has to enter the bottom, how are they gonna get them up to the top lugs without destroying this nice work?

Blue ty wraps...blue ty wraps....you can't use blue ty wraps.... blah blah blah....

Seriously awesome job. Send this over to Mike Holts board for a real evaluation.

LOL, No doubt Jim of FL would find fault with it.

Of course it would work better if it had a feed.

Put a plexiglass cover on this one - it's too nice to be covered up with the usual solid metal cover .

Question: Does derating come into play here, given the small amount of bundling of conductors?

Another question: under what circumstances would a panel be wired before the service conductors are installed? Just curious, because it seems traditionally that the service always comes first...(e.g. chicken or egg...?)

Mike (mamills)

Thanks for the comments folks. I had to get a cover inspection before the service was set. Homeowner was playing general contractor and scheduled the sheetrockers. As I only get to work on this nights and weekends, it took me awhile. 3000 sq ft, 320a service. The other panel is just to the right of this one.

Well, you oughta come down here where nearly every residential installer crams all the homeruns into one 3" PVC MA. I don't have a problem with this use of clamps.


I remember being told when I was a first-year apprentice that you should always do it this way, because service or feeder conductors are more likely to burn up than branch circuit conductors. When they burn up, it makes it easier to replace them. I don't buy this argument now, but sometimes there are circumstances where you do whatever work you can do at the moment. Yeah, normally you'd do the service or feeder first, but sometimes...

[This message has been edited by yaktx (edited 11-11-2005).]

[This message has been edited by yaktx (edited 11-11-2005).]

Beautiful Panel, Magoo!!!

Keep up the clean work!!!

Scott35

Very nice work,
perhaps you will consider turning the ty-raps around to keep the clamps towards the back,

it is much easier on the back of your hands later on

it 's hard to tell, but will the bottom feed give you some problems ? is there room to route them around your nice work ?

keep up the nice work !

I try to get mine looking this good, but for some reason they fall a little short of this. How long do you spend making your panels look like this?

I think the way he did it was actualy FASTER than the usual slam-jam-and-scram job....knowing that the SECs need to be brought in, all those BC wires will dump out easy AND be easy to re-install - heck, he could just remove one side then swing the guts to one side with little effort or fanfare.

Post a pic of the final product, ok?

Picture-perfect job, Magoo.
Why are the neutrals and grounds separated? Just for neatness? It appears that the bonding strap is still installed and the neutral buss is the one that's bonded.

Off topic question, what brand is that panel box?

Oh and no service cables?

Oh Magoo, you done it again, looks good.I have a guy that does the panels just like that, it kills me that it takes him so long but it looks great. I will have to post some pictures

Grounds and neutrals separate - It is apparently a sub panel, besides it is good practice, incase a main panel will be converted to a sub, plus is neat.

It appears to be a Siemens panel to me.

Classicsat, it is a Cutler-Hammer BR panel,it is too bad they all cannot be that neat, on another note I use very few main breaker panels,and the last one was a SQ D Homeline (yuk ) and the box was reversable for top or bottom feed, this panels MB operates side to side also, so there would be no reason one could not do so.That would be my only criticism of a fine job.

Funny, I do just the opposite
I make up new panels using ty-raps, and then when I'm done, I cut them off. Conductors bundled over 24" require derating.

This is a beautiful job !!

Very sharp work. You get a gold star.
Working on military sytems, this is the way that it is supposed/required to be done. That said, many of our techs dont even do this nice of a job.
Be proud.

Not in a panel.

Derating only applies to raceways or cables.

That aside I do not generally tie wrap in panels either.

Classicsat,

I thought sub-panel at first, but the bonding strap hasn't been removed and the neutral buss is bonded via the green screw and copper jumper.
Apparently it is simply for neatness and it looks good.

Note to renosteinke: Please notice I made no comments about the listing on the clamps. There are no faults with respect to code compliance. There are variations in style and I just compared it to mine. Food for thought, so to speak.

Where is the green bonding screw?

The bonding screw is just above the 5th branch circuit conductor on the right side, just to right of the neutral bundle.

One other thought, other than praise. Does this seperation of the phase conductors and the neutral cause increased EMFs? If it does, is it enough to cause concern?

I seem to remember a class by Mike Holt about this.

Looks great tho!

Rick Miell

[This message has been edited by rmiell (edited 11-14-2005).]

Redsy,


Another piece of evidence would be what appears to be a GEC entering the bottom left of the enclosure and landing on the ground bar.

Very nice, neat, and done in a workman-like manner. I appreciate seeing nice clean work like that. I side with the electricians though who DO NOT like using ty-wraps on NM. I do mostly residential and don't normally use them in a panel. I see no reason to use them because it's not like they cant supports themselves (opposite of THWN in a panel). Don't forget to identify those white wires in that 2g switchbox :-)

It sure looks nice but we don't separate the wires by color & don't cable tie. We keep the bk, rd & wt all together to prevent possible heating of the conductors in the middle of the bundle.
All that being said ... I couldn't make a panel look that neat in a week.

Thanks again for all the comments. Positive and otherwise, you never stop learning in this trade. This is the way I was taught to make up a residential panel (except for the service conductors). I was fortunate enough to apprentice under this guy for the first two years of the trade. Made a big impression. He started his own business about 9-10 yrs ago, he (and his journeyman that he trained from day one) do some truly amazing work. I'll try to get him to post some pic's.

Whenever I see a panel like this I start feeling very inadaquate. Try as I might, I admit I am unable to achieve this beautiful standard. Very nice job indeed.

very nice work. i have one question circuit labeling,how can you identify the circuits?

Bob,

Are you sure???


Don
edited to fix code for quote

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 02-27-2006).]

WOW!!!
Hold on lemme pick my jaw up off the floor! that is like THE neatest panel i have ever seen! I only wish in my wildest dreams that I could get my change-outs to look like that but its so hard with old bent-up wire and the like!
as for having to "cut ties to troubleshoot".. I could see that being a problem but in my mind, if the panel is a quality panel and the connections are good, there shold be no need to "troubleshoot" ever correct!
Keep it up eh!

A.D

OK- now let's all find something to complain about! :-)

For example...isn't the panel "upside down,' considering the feed will be from below?