ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Photos for General Discussion Would You Be Proud of This Installation?

Sure makes pulling cable hard. I would not recomend it unless its unavoidable.

Rob

Are you sure its flex, and not MC? They do make it that big.

Would I be proud of it? Only if paying the bill to put it in. Big savings on labor, and speed, but pricey for the mat's.

To me it looks like it can be supported more though.

Not for a minute. But I'll bet it wasn't the EC who decided on the flex or MC. My bet is that the EC did what the Engr/Arch would pay for. I wouldn't want that Engr/Arch designing my bldgs.

I would bet that is MC cable, we run a lot of MC, we have a job wrapping up now that has 1000's of feet of 250/4 copper MC.

The majority of our prints come with all pipe shown, then the bids go in and the people who have to pay the bill have a heart attack.

They want the building to have all the same features but they want the price reduced.

Changing from EMT to MC drops the labor costs significantly.

Do I think the above installation would look nicer in pipe?

Of course.

Do I see a safety issue with what is shown?

No I don't.

The support requirements for MC are 6', I do wonder why that one group was not cut shorter so it would not have had to drop down and cross over.

But again there is no telling how much 'value engineering' the customer asked of the contractors.

Bob It looks like that group crosses over to utilize the hanger. No problem with the installation as far as I can tell. Hard to make any type of cable method look neat.

I weigh 165 pounds.

I can't imagine pulling 250/4 MC cable. I get tired just thinking of it.

Looks fairly neat-ish. Seems like everytime I think, "One more support would be nice" in the end I might as well have used one-holes for conduit.

I have not touched the 250-4 MC but I have installed a lot of 4/0-4 MC.

It comes in at 3,800 Lb per thousand, you do not put much of it in without the right tools.

I'm betting it's MC also. There is big competition to set up power fast and cheap when working on casinos in LV so MC is ran whenever possible. The electricians lovingly call it "Medusa" and it usually gets installed overhead... One of the retrofit jobs I did all but the tele/com lines were in MC. Everything... Never seen so much MC in one place before!!!

I'll be the bad guy here.....
Is someone implying this doesn't meet code?
If you don't like the installation than you don't like the code, right? So you need to change the code.

What's unprofessional about this installation? I think it looks acceptable and meets code. The EC installed 'fire stopping' and I would say accounted for bend/pulling radii for the run through the ceiling.

Does it look pretty? Does it look like it was done in a workmanship like manner? My subjective opinion says 'yes'. The EC made efforts to secure and route everything in an orderly fashion.

Not sure if the sprinkler head can function? The angle makes it hard to see but if the cable is resting on the sprinkler head then start the finger pointing.

Fortunately, "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas." I haven't seen anything like this in my town.

RSLater,
RSmike

I'd sure like to see what's under the cover of that gutter.

Unprofessional? Yeah, ok, whatever you say.

MC cable looks fine, it meets code, it's economical, and is a great product all around.

Peter

I never said it was a code violation. In a public place I would never dream of running something like this. The code has very little to say about asthetics issues. This is an asthetic violation

IMO,
Rigid would look neater.
Just a little query, would you guys be allowed to fasten this type of cable to a cable ladder or tray?.
It's used here quite a bit to support long runs of Neutral-Screened PVC Mains cables.

For the short distance from the gear to the hole in the ceiling, hard pipe could have been used for the exposed portion. Anoter gutter could have been used at the hole in the ceiling. The MC could still have been used with the jacket removed for the last few feet of the run.

Also strapping within 12" of the termination is required, and can MC be run exposed?

This is blight and its lazy.

Rob

The 12" strapping rule applies only to MC cable 4 or fewer conductors in sizes #10 or smaller.

No, I would not be proud of having done this. This is just plain ugly.

This is why I will never post any pictures of my work. No matter what, you will rip it.

First of all, Scott, let me assure you- from personal expereince- the pros at this site have had only civil, constructive criticism about the work of mine I once posted----no "ripping" took place. I was asked why I did one thing, and not another, that sort of thing- but that's only fair.

As for this job, I'll guess the guy used flex simply because he doesn't have the $$$$ to get a power bender for 2" pipe. I don't have that kind of money either. Had I been forced to do this sort of job, my solutions would have probably looked far worse!

I don't have a problem with the MC, AC, Flex... whatever it is. I'm not used to it, around here (Chicagoland) I can't imagine it not being some sort of conduit. But I can't help but wonder if it would have been possible to start the the runs that double trapeeze..... have those start right out of the trough below rather than sweep over and below. Then those 4 stragglers.... put them with the others. Then everything comes out nice and neat.

Escott, I'm suprised to see you say that. As one of the edgier (as in edge....as in sometimes you have a bit of an edge) guys around here I'd'a figured you could take it better than anyone. So come on, lets see what you got.

I posted some of my work a while back, no one gave me any grief....


We discuss things don't we?
Simular to this one, some would do it different, many would go for neater. But then again, this is in a garage portion of the building, not the lobby. I'll say it, I've done MC feeds like that before. (#2/3 - 250MCM) There's a place for pretty work, and another for utilitarian work like this. I think it fine for the average hotel garage, but not the Ritz Carlton.

Caution rantings of a renegade electrician coming up.

Why is it that many electricians feel customers have an obligation to spend more money on an installation just so that when complete the electrician can say

"My what a nice job I did running that conduit."

It is not 'our' money to spend, if the customer is fine with MC then so am I, if the customer wants PVC coated RMC then thats fine too.

Work is work my pride comes from following the NEC, keeping the customers calling and more importantly bringing home a good wage to support the family.

Just like some people are happy to buy a KIA others want Mercedes, they is nothing wrong with either or the people that build them.


Climbing down now, Bob

I understand that reasoning iwire, but at a major hotel in Las Vegas where all the guest see it, dont you think a bit of pipe is the way to go?

Where I took these shots is right next to the main elevators of the hotel I was staying at.

What I think of how it looks is of no consequence, as long as it meets all codes.

It's not my building.

It's not my Hotel guests walking by it.

Would I walk by that as Hotel guest and be impressed that the Hotel went cheap?

No.

Would I install anther set of MCs right beside the existing ones if paid to?

You bet I would.

Bob

Unless the guests are bunch of electricians I would bet that none would ever give this a second look and most not even a first look.

That's the trick, right there. As much as I don't like to admit it, I think a lot of aesthetic pride is wasted on our customers. Most people probably wouldn't notice a difference between a beautiful rigid job and a nest of smurf-tube.

-John

Well the way I look at it? atlease there all labled.

Jimbo

I think a good aesthetic/budget solution here would be to make a drywall soffit over these MC/Flex cables. Now you get the economies of mc/Flex, and it looks pretty nice.

Hey, we all ove a nice rack of EMT, but it is pricey.

I agree.


Again I agree.


IMO this gets to the heart of the matter.

I would be happy if all customers allowed me install as I see fit with no concern about money, that ain't gonna happen.

If all they want is low cost code compliant installation I have no problem with that. I am happy to have the work. I do take pride in the work I do, I take more pride in providing a good life for my family.

Few ECs are in a position to only do work they want to do.

Hey, often the customers have us install ugly lighting fixtures that I would never choose, but that hardly means we tell them get some one else to do it.

JMO, Bob

No way would I stay at this hotel. I don't believe in staying at hotels that wire their buildings in MC cable. For me, it's got to be E.M.T.

Shockme

You must not stay in very many hotels then. I would think MC would be very common in hotel installations. The company I work for wired a large Amerisuites hotel entirely in MC. The majority of commercial jobs around here are done in MC.

You apparently do not get out much.

Many (most) Hotels (outside of a few large metropolitan areas) will be MC and many will be NM.

Can I ask how you choose where to stay?

The buildings wiring method is not usually something I would expect the reservation clerk to know about.

Bob

Just a little note on asthetics froma woman's perspective. It needs to meet code - of course. But ALL conduit is unapealing to the eye, flex, rigid the lot. If you want pleasing it needs to be buried (out of sight)in the concrete. Very few people outside our industry look at electrical infrastructure and say WOW that looks like a neat job. Same goes for the utility closet in the hotel - who cares if the utility closet is full of snaking conduit - just so long as the door closes and is painted in the same decor as other doors on the floor. In the parking garage the same could be said for those monstrous sprinkler standing pipe connections and pressure regulators - they look horrible - and then they go and paint them RED!!!

Of course I was kidding! Obviously, the EMT looks nicer and is easier on the eyes. That was my point.

You're right though, if the customer wants it in RNC, EMT, RMC, whatever - I'll do it that way as long as its up to code and I'm paid accordingly.

Hi there Ann,
Welcome to ECN!.

You can allways stay at a hotel in Chicago if you want EMT. Around here that picture would not pass even in a single family home out in most suburbs.

Tom

"If you want pleasing it needs to be buried (out of sight)in the concrete."

I doubt that there's an engineer around that would condone weakening the structure by embedding all these conduits.

Agreed on the structural weakening issue - being one myself. But the point was folk who care about the asthetics of the buildings that they live in, and have the money, bury or hide all of that kind of stuff.

I pulled, or should I say, Helped to pull, 500/4 al MC. However it was concealed, and conduit would have been impossible. Not a lot of fun to pull, I must say.