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Foam in Boxes #121636
08/04/05 11:53 PM
08/04/05 11:53 PM
Admin  Offline
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,552
(submitted by Joe Tedesco)
Hey Joe,

I thought you might like this picture of somebody's "clever" weatherstripping of a receptical. It was found in an apartment renovated a few years ago under a permit! Not too sure how this got slipped past inspection, but all of the recepticals on the outer walls are just like this.

I took this picture myself and you may use it for anything you want.

[Linked Image]

Tools for Electricians:
Re: Foam in Boxes #121637
08/05/05 02:21 PM
08/05/05 02:21 PM
Radar  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 349
Los Angeles, CA
Kinda wrecks the old box fill calculations, don't it.

There are 10 types of people. Those who know binary, and those who don't.
Re: Foam in Boxes #121638
08/05/05 04:03 PM
08/05/05 04:03 PM
alan bergold  Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 42
east meadow ny
how do we calculate foam into box fill calculations?

Re: Foam in Boxes #121639
08/05/05 06:21 PM
08/05/05 06:21 PM
electure  Offline

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,280
Fullerton, CA USA
Easy [Linked Image]

4 x 4 x 1-1/2 Box = 21 cu in per 314.16 (A)

3 #12 conductor @ 2.25 cu in each = 6.75 cu in.

1 device @ 2 x 2.25 cu in = 4.5 cu in

1 Foam job @ 9.75 cu in

Perfect fit [Linked Image]

Re: Foam in Boxes #121640
08/05/05 07:32 PM
08/05/05 07:32 PM
sierra electrician  Offline
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
4 x 4 x 1-1/2 Box = 21 cu in per 314.16 (A)

3 #12 conductor @ 2.25 cu in each = 6.75 cu in.

1 device @ 2 x 2.25 cu in = 4.5 cu in

1 Foam job @ 9.75 cu in

= 0.00 cu in + Fire Hazzard x (10)2 = Complete Violation & Installer must be shot.

Re: Foam in Boxes #121641
08/05/05 10:28 PM
08/05/05 10:28 PM
mxslick  Offline
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 803
Atomic City, ID USA
But it keeps the recept. and terminals at a constant toasty temperature....what's the problem? [Linked Image]

And it eliminates that annoying loose device wiggle, too.

Constantly amazes me how dumb some people can be...

Stupid should be painful.
Re: Foam in Boxes #121642
08/07/05 07:02 AM
08/07/05 07:02 AM
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,261
SI,New Zealand
I bet that was hard to get out!.
What's more concerning, is the stuff that Expanding foam is made out of.

Re: Foam in Boxes #121643
08/07/05 09:19 AM
08/07/05 09:19 AM
techie  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 247
palo alto, ca usa
I see what looking like pink fiberglass insulation the the lower corner of the box.. is there actually a box there? or just a mud ring?

Re: Foam in Boxes #121644
08/07/05 05:45 PM
08/07/05 05:45 PM
Theelectrikid  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 810
Levittown, PA
"I see what looking like pink fiberglass insulation the the lower corner of the box.. is there actually a box there? or just a mud ring?"

Is there even a box here? [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Theelectrikid (edited 08-07-2005).]

Is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
Re: Foam in Boxes #121645
08/07/05 08:58 PM
08/07/05 08:58 PM
jdadamo  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 37
Calgary, AB, Canada
Yes there is a box there. You will notice that the insulation is actually on the outside of the mudring. What I'm wondering now is where the vapor barrier is. I wonder if somebody stuffed that in there at a later point to plug a leak. It looks like weatherstripping was a huge concern back when this place was renovated.

The reason there is a mudring is because the property is piped and most common pipe installs here use 4x4 boxes with mudrings. There are a few single-gang-with-knockout style boxes, but those are usually at the end of switch loops and only contain two #14s.

Don't let the lack of paint on the receptacle throw you off much either as the maintenance guy of the apartment was not in the habit of removing plates to paint. Almost every plate has a small ring of paint around it. That install has been there, foam and all, I would guess, about five years.

It is unknown to me if the other 166 suites in the building are identical with respect to foaming receptacles on outside walls. I assume so. Some of the suite designs that were missing receptacles in certain places (12 foot rule) had them added using wiremold, so whatever work was done, it obviously had to be made to conform to code at the time of renovation.

I should show you guys a very interesting install that I also snapped a picture of from the same complex. One type of suite had a bedroom receptacle directly behind the fridge, and that recept and the fridge recept were in a single box with a mudring on each side. With both plates off you can look through into the other room! Never, ever seen anything like that before but it was clearly original.

Honestly, aside from the foam, i'd say the wiring as a whole is actually pretty good. All of the devices are P&S, not back-stabbed, etc. Not your standard corner cutting, 35 cent, back stabbed, home depot special--which is much more common.

[This message has been edited by jdadamo (edited 08-07-2005).]

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