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AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119890
02/05/05 04:54 PM
02/05/05 04:54 PM
Admin  Offline
OP
Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,547
NY, USA
Quote
This picture is a single pole 15 amp GE afci breaker with a single pole 15 amp standard breaker connected with a handle tie. Is this ok? It feeds a multiwire circuit. Other problems with this service are double grounded conductors under one terminal, grounded and grounding conductors under one terminal, other manufacturers breakers not isted for the panel, and the 15 of unfused SE cable in the picture on another thread. Sorry for the fuzzy picture.

Electricmanscott
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Re: AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119891
02/05/05 05:02 PM
02/05/05 05:02 PM
D
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
IIRC, as long as the handle tie is designed for that purpose (not a cut-down nail or 2 breakers zip-tied together) it's ok...

Re: AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119892
02/05/05 08:54 PM
02/05/05 08:54 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I have more than a little concern as to the overalll competence of whoever did this work.

The handle tie, while not in itself a violation, defies logic. As with GFI breakers, you can't share a neutral between circuits- so this cannot be for a multi-wire branch circuit. So the big question is: WHY?

As for the multiple conductors under one screw, you can probable sort the mess out by grouping the grounds - as many as three are permitted (per UL white book). An easy fix.

Re: AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119893
02/07/05 01:30 PM
02/07/05 01:30 PM
R
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
A lot of people have a misunderstanding of where handle ties are required. For example, I had an electrician insist that handle ties were required when more than one circuit was in a box!

I'll bet this was the case here. I have no problem with the installation.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119894
02/07/05 01:31 PM
02/07/05 01:31 PM
R
Ryan_J  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
West Jordan, Utah, USA
Doug: Under the 2002, handle ties needed only be "approved". It wasn't until the 2005 that handle ties were required to be "identified".


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119895
02/07/05 08:24 PM
02/07/05 08:24 PM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
This feeds a multiwire circuit. The neutral is connected to the afci breaker. It just seems wrong. why it was done I don't know.

Re: AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119896
02/07/05 08:38 PM
02/07/05 08:38 PM
C
cpal  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 162
Cohasset MA
This was a service upgrade??

If it was installed in the beginning of 02, The MEC originally required AFCI on panel changes. That was rescinded in May of 02, but there was only a mailing to the inspectors. Lack of funding.

Also the only mfg at that time that I am aware had a 2 pole AFCI was CH (I may be mistaken, but that was the conventional wisdom)

If the time line seems right! this could have been a feeble attempt to address the AFCI issue. Not a very good attempt but that might be the motivation!

Charlie

Re: AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119897
02/08/05 09:25 AM
02/08/05 09:25 AM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Charlie this is the panel from the other pitcture I posted regarding the SE cable. It was installed last fall as part of a renovation and addition. The house had a bedroom added. I have no idea why this needed a two pole breaker. From what I saw it is a multiwire circuit feedeing some things in the new bedroom and an office. From the work that I saw there I think the electrician is not educated as to when handle ties are needed, among many other things.

Re: AFCI Breaker, Misc Violations #119898
02/08/05 11:34 PM
02/08/05 11:34 PM
D
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
Ryan - wasn't sure of the date on the "approval" language, but I'd seen pics of some rather imaginative ties on Joe T's website, and remembered some of the discussion.

Missed the one breaker being AFCI... sorry.


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