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#118160 08/13/04 01:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,671
Likes: 2
Admin Offline OP
Covering the service riser with siding creates a heat trap. The additional heat can cause premature failure and/or fire. Is there a specific Code reference prohibiting this?

- kduke
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

#118161 08/13/04 01:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,438
Is this any different than if the riser was in the wall with a semi-flush installation?


#118162 08/14/04 11:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
Looks like a great way to hide evidence of power theft to me. Does the local POCO actually allow this kind of thing?

#118163 08/14/04 12:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
I believe that California permits Rigid within the walls, in NY the Service Entrance cannot be installed within the wall cavity.
One thing I do see in my travels is some SE Cable that has been enclosed by siding or some other fashion. I wonder just how dangerous this may be? Is it not permitted by the NEC?


Pierre Belarge
#118164 08/14/04 12:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I do not agree that this is a 'heat trap' conduits are often in walls with insulation.

That aside in this area (New England) this would not be allowed as this would be considered as service conductors "inside" the building and a violation of 230.70(A)(1).

Randy not putting down what is allowed in CA but that method (semi flush services) is, as far as I know only acceptable in CA.

It was an eye opener when Bill A. showed me some pictures of CA services, as a NY native he was also surprised by that method.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
#118165 08/14/04 11:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 840

Other Western states have services very similar, if not identical, to California's, including Utah, Nevada, and Arizona.

Being a New Englander myself, that method of doing the service really surprised me too. I was a bit leery of having the panel and all the breakers outdoors, to say the least. But, there are millions of homes out there done that way, so it can't be all that bad! [Linked Image] It saves quite a bit of time over our way of doing things, that's for sure.


I took these pics when I visited CA and as you can see from the second pic, PVC is very commonly used within the wall for the riser into the panel.


#118166 08/15/04 12:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
Peter I am not talking about the breakers being outside you can find that anywhere.

The thing that I find unusual is the service riser pipe runs inside the wall cavity to a main panel meter combo that is also inside the wall cavity.

Obviously it works good for them [Linked Image] but how is it not a NEC violation?

Don't try this in our area it will not pass.

Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
#118167 08/15/04 01:03 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
I don't have a problem with this. As was pointed out, risers are frequently places within wall cavities. They almost always pass throgh the attic space for part of their run. On older homes, the meter/fuse box is often set into a cabinet that was built into the wall at the time of construction; the riser then is in the wall.

On the brighter side, too often I see exposed risers with questionable attachment to the side of the building- as well as other things attached to them!

FWIW, a subdivision around here is rewuiring services to be flush with the face of the wall; everything is inside the wall.

They want to hide the pipe, I say OK.

#118168 08/15/04 02:42 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
I am certainly not an expert in this method. I saw this on a post awhile back, and it was stated that it had to be rigid, with no more than 6 inches of conduit run horizontally.

I do not like the idea of unprotected service entrance conductor of any chapter 3 method run inside the wall cavity. That is just my opinion.

"it is hard to teach old dogs new tricks" [Linked Image]

Pierre Belarge
#118169 08/15/04 05:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,289
Up until ECN, I thought that everybody did services like we do here in California [Linked Image]
The idea of SE Cable run on the exterior of a building I thought laughable at best, much like a piece of "Giant Romex".

It all depends on what you're accustomed to, and what your climate dictates.

I think the siding issue here is akin to saying conduit can't be run inside a wall. If it's going to cause a fire, then there's much bigger problems than a piece of siding...S

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