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Office Troubleshoot #117051 05/16/04 09:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,632
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Heres somethings I came across while troubleshooting an open grounded phase on some office outlets... This is office is built inside an industrial warehouse for a composites factory.. Funny thing, you don't usually find romex in these places! 14-2 NMB was feeding 5 engineering offices, a breakroom with a soda machine & microwave, & a restroom... One of the pics shows where the grounded phase failed... The rest are all things found on the way!
The pic with the beer can wasn't staged... I found that exacty as shown, not to mention I didn't have to remove any J-box covers... there weren't any! [Linked Image]

-Randy
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Re: Office Troubleshoot #117052 05/16/04 09:31 PM
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Re: Office Troubleshoot #117053 05/16/04 11:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
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frenchelectrican Offline
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that is ugly there and btw i look at the last two photos there and what kind of clamp to hold that romax wire?? that is really goofy one i ever see and the last photo i can see other romax wire look like both red wire and ground wire is allready cutted off. and i am not too crazy with wago connectors there at all .

in third photo look little burry to me but looks like too much wire for that size of junction box there

in fourth photo i can see really clear with bent emt conduct there .

btw what else in that place have open junctions box and code voliations there ??

merci, marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

Re: Office Troubleshoot #117054 05/17/04 02:56 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,436
Lostazhell Offline
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Marc,
The loads I found that were running on the 14/2 Romex were mind boggling! 10A Soda Machine, 12A Microwave, a commercial coffee machine I couldnt find a rating on (probably between 12-15A, 14AWG power cord), 5 offices each with a full-on computer set up, one of the offices had a portable space heater & a small Mr. Coffee... I havent found the breaker that fed all of this, as when I came across all this, I immediately showed the manager that called in the work order. I saftied off the romex crap at a box & left it dead until they decide who's eating the repair bill. The company management had no clue all this was up there & stated it must've been left over from the last tenant.. & they're holding the landlord responsible for the repair. (BTW, the company there now had an "electrician" add a few outlets in the offices. The "electrician" mentioned nothing about the romex being there.. He must've seen it, because his outlets connected into the jbox with the failed Wago connectors, being fed via the romex. [Linked Image] [Linked Image] The MC cable minus the ground seemed to be made this way!, I've never come across it this way, but that part of the circuit had devices on it which appeared to be from sometime in the late 60's or into the 70's... Was this ever ok?
I found weirdness all over this place.. panels doublelugged to feed other panels, burned breakers still being used, open breaker spaces, ¾ of the boxes in that place were uncovered. Some hacked up ways of attaining 220V by pulling a phase from 2 different boxes into another... The 3rd pic was taken from a distance, sorry about the quality, but its severly overcrowded & was also missing a cover... The 1st pic is about 20+ feet of EMT running to the roof, just resting on the A/C ducting. [Linked Image]
I'll get more pics once they sign for the repairs.

-Randy

Re: Office Troubleshoot #117055 05/17/04 05:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,286
electure Offline
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I never did like the Wago-style connectors.
This is just what I thought they'd do.
It looks a lot like a "backstabber plug failure", doesn't it?

Quote
The MC cable minus the ground seemed to be made this way!, ..... sometime in the late 60's or into the 70's... Was this ever ok?

It still is OK. It's type AC cable. You can see the paper filler (not mylar) sticking out of the connector, and the tiny ground wire (correctly) wound back up the outside of the armor.
This is newer than you think.
We didn't have Speedlok connectors or Wagos back then. (We had lots of "Whackos", though) [Linked Image]



[This message has been edited by electure (edited 05-17-2004).]

Re: Office Troubleshoot #117056 05/17/04 06:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
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Ryan_J Offline
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Alright....before anyone asks, the fact that there was a Budweiser can at the crime scene is not evidence that I did this install!!!


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: Office Troubleshoot #117057 05/18/04 01:04 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,436
Lostazhell Offline
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LMAO Ryan.... I know you did'nt do it... You prefer Miller, right? [Linked Image] Besides, this place is in Electure's neck of the woods [Linked Image]

-Randy

Re: Office Troubleshoot #117058 05/18/04 07:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,286
electure Offline
Member
I didn't do it!! Honest!! [Linked Image]
For me, it's coffee, tea, or soda.
(Henry Weinhard's brewery does make some fantastic Orange Creme soda, though).
If I had a Budweiser, my work would probably not be much better than this....S

Re: Office Troubleshoot #117059 05/18/04 09:40 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,486
T
Texas_Ranger Offline
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Weird how similar things are on both sides of the big pond... here it is the proverbial Ottakringer bottle, or in recent days the Schwechater/Gösser/Budweiser can (BTW, Budweis is the German name of the czech town Ceske Budejovice, pretty close to Austria, and that's where Budweiser originally came from).
I sometimes have the feeling construction workers live off beer and fast food. A mason we had a few years ago managed to be drunk as #@?*# at 7:30 in the morning and stay that way all day long.
Now it really gets OT, but he was one of the few guys who didn't use the temp power trick i described in a thread in the Non-US section but actually asked us whether he could plug his extension cord into one of our receptacles. Oh well, it was wintertime, and a few days later I caught him heating the unfinished basement with a 2000W blow heater and leaving it on all night long... that was when I pulled the plug...
Oh yeah, and he managed to get us a dead hot-to ground short when plastering the bathroom that blew the 16A breaker, the 30mA GFI _and_ the 20A main fuse.

Re: Office Troubleshoot #117060 05/18/04 12:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,436
Lostazhell Offline
Member
Give me flashbacks to a panelchange I did in Walnut... Split level house with a pretty good size basement/crawlspace... I went under there to bond the rebar & water system, There had to be about 80-100 beer cans under there! This was obviously the spot to "disappear" when these houses were being built!
Electure's right about the Weinhards orange, Good Stuff! [Linked Image]
Speaking on the topic of temp power... I've come across so many different contraptions that other trades have made to get power from one place to another, not necessarily the safest way, I can't begin to describe.. I've made some of the worst ones "disappear" [Linked Image] mysteriously.. One guy had a twistlock L5-20 cord car with 2 power strips wired into it,.. All the other trades helped load em up to the point that you could smell the hot plastic & rubber if you walked past the spider box...

BTW Electure... My "old company" had some yellow twistlock cords that needed some serious help... I hope they're out of service by now! [Linked Image] Not to mention some pretty thrashed spider boxes!

-Randy

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