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#116932 05/04/04 09:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,661
Likes: 1
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Quote
This Spec.Grade kitchen outlet and 12 ga wire were "protected" by an FPE 20 amp breaker.

Dave (aka djpep55)
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Quote
Good advise from FPE:
[Linked Image]

#116933 05/04/04 09:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
C
Member
I don’t think I would blame this on the breaker. The connection to the receptacle was probably loose.

Curt


Curt Swartz
#116934 05/05/04 01:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,437
Member
I'm with Curt on this one.... These are the same recepts I use in my work (P&S BR15W).. The pitting on the neutral wire is a giveaway of a loose terminal.. I can torque the %@%$ out of those without stripping the terminals out (Unlike Leviton, which I usually snap the head of the terminals or strip em out, By HAND!)

Possible, but unlikely... Was a shared neutral being fed through here with both hots on the same phase?

-Randy

#116935 05/05/04 07:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 29
D
Member
I think you guys are right on this. I hope the fine folks of FPE can forgive me. I always wrap a solid wire around the screw and use the clamp on stranded. This had the solid wire using the clamp and as I recall it wasn't in the receptacle when I pulled it from the outlet.

Your experience is that the increase in resistance will melt the receptacle and conductor at under 20 amps?

I concur about the quality of P&S. I started using it a few years ago and never went back.

This was not fed through, it was the end of the circuit.

Dave

#116936 05/06/04 01:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,437
Member
djpep55 wrote:
Quote
Your experience is that the increase in resistance will melt the receptacle and conductor at under 20 amps?

with a loose connection & a load.. Absolutely!
I had a service call to a new home once.. Home was only about 3 years old... The customer almost had a fire in a kitchen receptacle.. I got there & the wall was seriously scorched, plastic 118N box melted like a shrinky-dink, recept looked like something in the back of my fireplace.. I closely examined the recept & noticed something peculiar... The terminal screws were still backed out to factory set! [Linked Image] the installer only wrapped the conductors around the screws not bothering to tighten them down!... I checked EVERY device in that house & found over half were that way! [Linked Image] [Linked Image] The load on the circuit was a 15A 120V jacuzzi plugged in the WP recept outside, which fed through here & from a counter GFI.. (Funny, I thought you weren't allowed to put other loads on the kitchen counter circuits sans the dining room or a couple other kitchen loads).. I wish I had pics from that place.. I only had a few left in my Polaroid at the time & gave them to the customer..

That was an extreme case, but I come across them alot when people start using those little "plug in" heaters..

-Randy

PS.. click here for more "burning fun" https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000348.html

#116937 05/06/04 02:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 29
D
Member
I'm glad I'm an electrician...that guy will never work on my house & another good reason for using steel boxes.

Dave

#116938 05/06/04 02:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 349
Member
I've pulled out a few receptacles like this - and worse, where a good portion of the receptacle is simply gone! Circuit breakers too, and all caused by lousy connections under load.

Anyone who has any aluminum branch wire installations around their area sees this more commonly than with copper, but it still happens with copper (especially if the installer didn't even bother to tighten the stinking screws!).

Radar


[This message has been edited by Radar (edited 05-06-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Radar (edited 05-06-2004).]


There are 10 types of people. Those who know binary, and those who don't.
#116939 05/10/04 07:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,287
Member
Yep, you've gotta tighten them down...S


[Linked Image]

#116940 05/15/04 12:18 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
J
Member
I've seen the results of a nick in the wire insulation "plasma cutting" the neatest slot in the side of the EMT- without ever tripping a good breaker!
Visit any weld shop, and look at the settings on the machines. A LOT of welding is done with less than 2000 watts. Or, even, twenty amps.
It is very possible for a lot of melting to happen without tripping a breaker. We just don't appreciate just how much energy is available in a 20A/120V circuit.

#116941 05/15/04 05:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
E
Member
djpep55, what does a steel box have to do with anything. I would be more concerned about a proper installation. If done correctly it wouldn't matter if you had no box. [Linked Image]

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