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Exit sign and electical outlet #113612
08/10/02 03:07 PM
08/10/02 03:07 PM
Admin  Offline
OP
Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,516
NY, USA
Quote
Here's two fuzzy pictures of one of many nightmares I found in a building our company bought a short while ago.

[Linked Image]

I discovered the problem when I plugged a drill into this outlet and the drill quietly hummed as the exit light went out.

[Linked Image]

This is a 277V exit sign. The electrical outlet is being powered by the tiny 277/120 transformer that normally powers the two 15W lightbulbs.

Actually this could be a "how many violations can you name" quiz. Feel free to use these pics,

- Ryan Cruzan

Tools for Electricians:
Re: Exit sign and electical outlet #113613
08/14/02 03:26 AM
08/14/02 03:26 AM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,247
SI,New Zealand
Hi Ryan,
Thats a shocker.
At the end of that conduit, is that a
socket-outlet or a PIR sensor?
However, I don't like the look of this
installation at all.

Re: Exit sign and electical outlet #113614
08/14/02 08:09 AM
08/14/02 08:09 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,902
NY, USA
Trumpy,

That's a 'socket outlet' at the end, whose capacity is going to be governed by that tiny transformer that you see. (Transformer is only meant to light the 2 bulbs in the Exit sign)

Bill

Re: Exit sign and electical outlet #113615
08/14/02 12:18 PM
08/14/02 12:18 PM
B
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
The bogus 120V receptace may be feeding a plugged-in ~5VA wall wart and—irresponislbe as it is—may actually sort of work.

[Linked Image]

Re: Exit sign and electical outlet #113616
08/14/02 12:22 PM
08/14/02 12:22 PM
M
mamills  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
Any idea what the capacity of the transformer is? Judging from its physical size, it doesn't look to be much larger than required to simply power the two lamps (the original intent, of course). It also appears that the lamps are burned out or have a lot of hours on them.

One more question; is the 277v. entry in the back center of the fixture? If so, it looks kinda like NM cable.

From an old codebook (I have a new one coming); Art. 700-13 - "No appliances and no lamps, other than those specified as required for emergency use, shall be supplied by emergency lighting circuits."

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 08-14-2002).]

Re: Exit sign and electical outlet #113617
08/14/02 08:38 PM
08/14/02 08:38 PM
B
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
The little transformer looks like maybe a 3-lead autotransformer—bet 15VA max.

[Linked Image]

The rear-entry cable could be NM—with bare ground wire and possibly showing brown-paper fill.

Re: Exit sign and electical outlet #113618
08/15/02 06:41 AM
08/15/02 06:41 AM
M
maintenanceguy  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 300
Southern NJ, USA
The cable is NM with no clamp at the back of the exit sign. And this is a nursing home, I believe NM is only suitable in sleeping areas there anyway. This is the front lobby.

The outlet powers that little plug in transformer for a door alarm and apparently it worked that way for years.

I have no idea how big the transformer is, no marking on it at all.

Re: Exit sign and electical outlet #113619
08/17/02 01:29 PM
08/17/02 01:29 PM
B
Bjarney  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
West-Southern Inner-Northeast ...
Talk about a little knowledge being dangerous. This may have been a project designed and installed by the chairman and treasurer of the tuesday-afternoon ‘over-80’ engineering club...with its two active members—a retired telephone installer and career supply sergeant. ;-)

But they had the foresight of future-proofing—a spare outlet for the swill-mart carbon-monoxide detector when they go on sale in February. [Might have to wait ‘til one of the exit-sign lamps burns out to avoid overloading the 277-120V transformer.] They reached the sign with four stacked chairs from the piano room, and got materials by mail from the Sears and Roebuck catalog—summer 1955 farm & garden edition.


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