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Pool Pole #113086 03/02/02 09:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,630
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I was called by a very successful General Contractor that had done some work of his own at home, but just couldn't quite get the 3 way switching right. His place is nearly new, but he's added some PVC, wire, and these (3) 12' light poles "after the fact". This one's about 3-1/2 feet from the pool. Another is 4 feet, and the third is 15 feet away. He say's he going to cut a receptacle into each soon.

Any thoughts?

- Electure


[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 03-02-2002).]

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Re: Pool Pole #113087 03/02/02 10:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 38
H
HIGHVOLTAGE Offline
Member
Ahhh yes,,, the ole lightpole/lifesaver trick!!!
I'd say they have to move the one thats 15' away 12' closer to the pool !
How else will it be able to used properly , if someone wanted to tip it into the pool to save a life it wouldn't reach!!!

Or
Make sure they are located to support that water volleyball net!!!
Fun for the whole family!! and people you love the most!!!

Re: Pool Pole #113088 03/02/02 05:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,960
Bill Addiss Offline
Member
Would this be permitted per 680.22(B)(1) if the Pole was Bonded?

Bill


Bill
Re: Pool Pole #113089 03/03/02 12:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 38
H
HIGHVOLTAGE Offline
Member
Bill

Not knowing how those poles are installed ( securly fastened in place or not) Lets say they are not
nothing is allowed within 10' of this pool horizontally unless it has to do with the operation of the pool ( ie pool equipment) or the underwater lighting , and then would have to be GFCI protected . and I would consider the pole as part of the fixture .
and anything within 5-10 ' would have to be 12' above maximum water level

On the other hand if you read down to 680.22 (B) (4) if they were securly fastened, you could try that, but I'm pretty sure this (4) is for a fence or shed light

the way it is now though 2 of those have to be moved and all have to be GFCI protected.

Re: Pool Pole #113090 03/03/02 12:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,283
electure Offline
Member
If it were permissible per '02 Code, previous Code is 680-6(b)(1), which says no part of the lighting fixture can be below 12'. Is the pole part of the fixture?

Re: Pool Pole #113091 03/05/02 03:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,960
Bill Addiss Offline
Member
It looks like HV had the right call on this one according to the UL White Book.
Quote
Luminaire Poles (IEUR)

USE
This category covers poles for support of luminaires in accordance with Article 410 of the National Electrical Code. Included are poles that exceed 12 feet in length - measured from the bottom of the base, or from the intended grade level of poles for installation partially in ground. The poles are investigated with respect to suitability of the enclosure for supply conductors, provision of equipment grounding and bonding means, and a means of access to wiring.

Poles Classified under this category have not been evaluated for mechanical strength or wind loading.

Poles are evaluated for use in wet locations.

PRODUCT MARKING
Poles that are greater than 25 feet in length and not provided with conductor support are marked "FOR USE ONLY WITH A LUMINAIRE WITH INTEGRAL CONDUCTOR SUPPORT."

RELATED PRODUCTS
Poles that do not exceed 12 feet in length are Listed under Luminaire Fittings (IFFX).
Quote
Luminaire Fittings (IFFX)

Luminaire fittings are incomplete parts and/or subassemblies of luminaires intended for final assembly into luminaires in the field. Completely assembled luminaires incorporating luminaire fittings may be submitted to the Laboratories as part of the Factory Inspection and Follow-Up Service Program for Fluorescent, Incandescent and High Intensity Discharge Luminaires and, if found suitable, Listed as luminaires. Smoothness and thickness of wireways, methods for connection to a recognized wiring system, suitability of splice enclosure and means for inspecting splices are typical considerations given to the completed luminaire which cannot be judged until the fittings are assembled into a complete luminaire.
To sum up it looks like a pole 12ft or less is considered as part of the Fixture and over 12ft is support for a fixture.

Bill


Bill
Re: Pool Pole #113092 03/05/02 07:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,283
electure Offline
Member
Looks like Mr. GC is not going to be able to comply!
(We've already sent him some Code references to discourage him from doing this, and as a disclaimer)
This is 'akin to biting the hand that feeds you, but I would rather lose a customer due to his being mad than from one of his grandkids getting zapped!
(BTW, it is on a GFI breaker, hence nothing isn't GFI protected)
I refused to work on it any more, biting the hand that bites the hand that feeds me.
Oh well, was lookin' for a job when I got there.

Re: Pool Pole #113093 04/10/02 12:17 AM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
J
John Steinke Offline
Member
I'd like to continue this discussion. 2" or 3" rigid is commonly used as a pole to support lights. As such, the pole is also a raceway. Assuming that the lights are at least 7 1/2 ft. above the water level, an protected by a GFI breaker, wouldn't they comply- even if the base was anchored within 5 ft. of the waters' edge? Isn't the decorative pole simply a raceway, and not a "luminaire?"
Of course, the poles within 5 ft. of the waters' edge would not be allowed to have receptacles added to the bases.
I also question the intent of the code here. Does it not make more sense to use a GFI breaker to protect the supply side of any receptacles? Do GFI makers make any effort to co-ordinate their products, so a breaker will trip at a slightly greater fault than, say, a receptacle? (As we do with overcurrent protection).
Any thoughts?

Re: Pool Pole #113094 04/23/02 09:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,283
electure Offline
Member
John,
That's how come I felt a little bit better about this install. GFI breakers will interrupt all the power to the unit in the case of a G-fault, but the fact still is there.
NOT BONDED to the rest of the pool equipment.
If one installs a local GFI rather than feeding it with a GFI C/B in a situation (this one's a special TURKEY) like this, you still have non-GFI protected conductors which can remain active in the location.
You're only protecting the load side, while the line side of the GFI can still just boogie on up 'til the breaker trips.

Re: Pool Pole #113095 04/30/02 08:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
J
John Steinke Offline
Member
Sorry- I wasn't clear. I agree- GFCI at the panel is the way to go.


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