ECN Forum Forums Photo Discussion Forums Violation Photo Forum Counterfeit UL Marking

Thanks for Norcal for finding this gem on E-Bay. I think it is safe to say that Neither UL, nor Miele, have ever seen this "product."

Actually that is a Miele product. I have only seen them with a 4-wire cord but they do make them with 3-wire cords. I have a hard time believing they could get a listing on the model with a 3-wire cord.
http://miele.com/pdf/Laundry/W2000LargeCapacityWashers.pdf
Look at page 4.

Curt

Personal rather than professional note: We bought a Miele washer. Although it is a washer, it requires a 240V supply. It comes with a standard 30A cord cap.

Miele sells the splitter boxes to permit both their washer and dryer to be plugged into a single standard dryer circuit.

The washer manual makes it clear that the washer requires a 15A circuit, but the 30A cord cap seems to imply that a 30A circuit is acceptable.

The washer works quite well, but the nameplate and manual left me with a bunch of questions which I was fortunately able to ignore, since we already had a dryer receptacle but we had a gas dryer.

-Jon

Ummm.....before you called this a "counterfeit" UL marking, couldn't you have done some research first? It would have been easy to check Miele's website and also entered the "E-xxxxxx" number into UL's website to double check.

Peter

Rest assured I did notify UL of this item.

I call it "counterfeit" because of the "complies with" statement on the label. It, strictly speaking, does NOT bear a UL label. The reference seems to imply something else.

Since UL also does plant inspections and follow-up testing, the very idea that someone else's evaluation is equivalent to a UL label is problematic, at best.

The standard listed is not appropriate to the product shown. UL 498 is little more than a collection of plug patterns. It most certainly is not the standard used when a multi-receptacle power strip is evaluated.

That separate ground wire is a major "red flag." Since the NEC requires ALL conductors to be within the same cable, such a construct is not up to UL standards either.

There's go another 'I've never seen that before' electrical apparatus.

Looks bootleg to me too.

The ground wire is a joke.

It's an ETL label. A search on the ETL website does show this product as a listed product. www.etl.com

I do agree, though, that the grounding on this leaves much to be desired. This is essentially a 120/240V "cheater plug." Just like the 120V version, it is very likely that this could end up with an open ground.

UL 1363 (Relocatable power taps) would not apply to this as that standard is only for units rated 20A or less.

[This message has been edited by BrianP (edited 02-02-2007).]

Addressing the "conforms to UL standard" issue. Even though UL may set the standard they are not the only NRTL that can list an item as to compliance with the standard.

ETL is just one of many NRTL's out there.

A few more that I see from time to time are CSA, (Canadian Standards Association) ETI, (Electro Test INC) ENT, (Entella) NTS, (National Technical Systems) and more.

Roger

I see that it is listed by ETL for the US market. ETL seems to approve a few of the sketchier products and my favorites are puck lights. An Inspector can reject any product he thinks is being misused or violates another part of the code that might not have been recognized when the listing agency gave them the sticker. The itegral equipment grounding conductor could be the killer. I am guessing that ETL thinks that ty raps make the ground integral.

Would an inspector ever see this? An inspection is not needed just to install a new washer and dryer. If this is part of a job that is being inspected (new construction or remodel), it shouldn't have a 3-wire receptacle, so this model wouldn't be used.

If the customer knows that a washer/dryer combo such as the Miele will be installed when the wiring is being done (requiring 2 240V receptacles), I would like to see 2 separate receptacles installed by the electrician rather than using an adapter such as this.

A very good point, Brian. One of the reasons I posted these pics was as an alert: don't let a pretty label fool you into turning off your brain. The label may be false, or the product modified.

ETL certifies sketchy stuff? Funny, most of the unsafe products in the recall section of this forum have the UL mark on them. It is true that Intertek will get a job finished (pass or fail) faster and cheaper than UL, so on projects where cost is critical UL may be excluded from the running. I've personally found Intertek/ETL to be very tough when making technical judgements. Too tough sometimes. I've frequently heard former and current UL employees state UL's superiority over Intertek (never with concrete examples cuz they pulled the criticism out of their butts or employee training manual). Having dealt with incompetence and sloth at UL, I find it pretty laughable. I can get a project completed at Intertek in less time than it takes to get a quote and a schedule from UL. And I can actually talk to the lab technician or engineer that is working on my project - direct dial even. Its almost as if the people at Intertek know how to pick up their feet when they walk. Or maybe they just have a clue on how to run a business. If you happen to visit a UL office while your product is being tested, don't bother asking the technician if a particular test passed or not. He isn't allowed to answer that kind of question, but he is allowed to tell you he can't answer. And don't count on the answer and advice from his boss being correct either. Certainly don't redesign your product on his boss's verbal input...just sayin.

Damn, there goes my future with UL...

The label is acurate, if misleading. It does say "ETL Listed Attachment Plugs and Receptacles", which I take to mean the plug and the receptacles are listed as individual items, and that seems pretty reasonable.

However, what it does not say is that the entire assembly is a listed unit.

[This message has been edited by kale (edited 02-02-2007).]

Who wants to bet it'll get stuck to one of the washers hose bibs with plumbers strapping if attached to anything? With the use of plastic plumbing lines nowadays, where would one find "grounded metal?? On a 3 wire dryer plug I dont remember if there's anything bonding the yoke to the neutral/ground terminal.. If there isn't, and the outlet is in a plastic nail on box, the face plate screws wouldn't be of any use either!

[This message has been edited by Lostazhell (edited 02-05-2007).]

I think it is listed as a unit, but only to UL 498, which may not fully test the assembly.

It is a bit like the "surge suppressors" that were listed to UL 1363, but not UL 1449. It doesn't fully cover the complete product.


Someone will decide the green wire is "in the way" and will cut it off.

I would be very supprised if that's a genuine Miele part. Miele are an *extremely* high end German domestic appliance manufacturer and their products are normally top notch from every perspective, including electrical.
They quite litterally pride themselves on the quality of their machines, components and engineering.

I would bring the item in question to the attention of Miele in Germany by email. ( info@miele.de ) to ensure it gets read in English perhaps CC it to Miele here in Ireland info@miele.ie

It's very odd that that label does not contain Miele's logo too


Their products usually have the following codes:
Type: (short code with dashes)
Model: (longer code with dashes)
Serial: (long numeric code)

Is it possible that some local re-distributor is knocking together boxes to make the installation easier?

The grounding arrangement is, indeed, very odd.
Surely there's a ground on the socket outlet ?!

Normally, a European washer or dryer is connected to a 13amp (UK/IRL) or 16amp (Rest of EU) outlet. (230V 50Hz) [typically protected by a 30mA RCD [GFCI] and on a 16A or 20A radial (UK's different due to the ring circuits - 13A fuse in plug, 32A fuse on ring circuit).
Miele's North American washers have a heafty internal heater, so their US model operates on a 240V 60Hz US dryer circuit.
US washers typically just use hot water from the tank.

Most European washing machines have abandoned their hot water connector.
The reason for this is:
1) They use so little water for the wash that the water would be still running cold by the time the machine had filled!
2) They use a "profile wash" where water is gradually heated to maximise enzyme activity in the detergent (there's a euro standard for this!)
3) It means the wash temp. can be accurately controlled from 30C to Boiling.

Older machines always had hot and cold fill as they used considerably more water during the wash cycle (even in Europe)

Take a look at this spec sheet from the Miele website: Spec sheet
Page 4 shows the "Easy Installation Kit," either 057B (NEMA 10-30) or 060B (NEMA 14-30).