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Gas in the Way? #111364
11/18/06 08:34 PM
11/18/06 08:34 PM
electure  Offline
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,279
Fullerton, CA USA
From Rewired

These two pictures are of that Briggs gennie install I did recently. The homeowner and I had the unit on the pad perfectly centered and connected , waiting for the gas connection.

This is how the gas fitters connected the unit! I can live with the unit being kicked over a little on the pad but that gas line in front of the door?!?! Good thing it lifts up and out and comes off so I can at least get in there.

Disgusting is it not?

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-18-2006).]

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Re: Gas in the Way? #111365
11/18/06 11:26 PM
11/18/06 11:26 PM
Ann Brush  Offline
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 152
If I was the home owner they would be coming back and Uncle Visa would be out to lunch for payment. Where are the vibration damper U bends in the gas pipe - that's a dead straight line? Who are these guys? Who are these guys?

Edited to add question.

[This message has been edited by Ann Brush (edited 11-18-2006).]

Re: Gas in the Way? #111366
11/18/06 11:28 PM
11/18/06 11:28 PM
CaOperator  Offline
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 60
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Shouldn't there be a shutoff valve visible here also??

Re: Gas in the Way? #111367
11/19/06 12:07 AM
11/19/06 12:07 AM
Lostazhell  Offline
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,431
Bakersfield, CA (Originally Or...
Hard line directly into the appliance???? Even I know better than that! (and Im a stinkin electrician [Linked Image] [Linked Image] )

Re: Gas in the Way? #111368
11/20/06 02:46 AM
11/20/06 02:46 AM
Rewired  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 558
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
I don't know the company name but I did talk with one of "them" a few days ahead of time. Did not seem too swift.
There IS a ball valve there in the gas line but its out of view. There WAS also a rubber flex line that was supplied but not installed, why I have no idea.
There is one thing thats missing here as well I think. There is no "dirt pocket" in the gas line at the inlet of the generator. Given I don't know much about gas code, but I always thought there had to be one right at the appliance? There is one like 5 feet upstream where the fitter changed direction of the pipe and incorporated a dirt pocket there, but what good is that going to do if the last 5 feet of line start to accumulate some moisture or rust??
Going to have to look that one up too!


Re: Gas in the Way? #111369
11/20/06 04:21 AM
11/20/06 04:21 AM
PEdoubleNIZZLE  Offline
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 176
McKeesport, PA, USA
Rewired - You're right about the "dirt pocket" (sediment trap). Keep us posted if you find out if they fix it.

As for hard-lining into an appliances, codes differ from place to place, but there should be a shut off, then a union, then the sediment trap. For those of you who may not know, a union is a coupler that connects two pipes but unscrews in the middle (where it has a flared fitting) to remove a section of pipe without having to undo the whole building. I'm sure most of you know that, but it never comes up in electrical wiring.

Re: Gas in the Way? #111370
11/20/06 04:54 AM
11/20/06 04:54 AM
iwire  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
I'm sure most of you know that, but it never comes up in electrical wiring.

Sure it does, if you run rigid.

In my area we call it an Erickson or three piece coupling but it is just a union.

Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Re: Gas in the Way? #111371
11/20/06 02:02 PM
11/20/06 02:02 PM
BElder  Offline
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 51
Paradise, CA. U.S.A.
Rewired Here in Ca. the sediment traps are only required in some locations by Pacific Gas & Electric. It's determined by the moisture content of the natural gas being supplied. My jurisdiction does not require sediment traps.
And I don't know if it changes The moisture content.
So I can't enforce it but I Highly recomend it.
Where water vapor is present in the fuel gas served, accessable drip pipes shall be provided at points where condensation will tend to collect. 1211.5, 2001 Ca. plumbing code

[This message has been edited by BElder (edited 11-20-2006).]

Re: Gas in the Way? #111372
11/20/06 02:47 PM
11/20/06 02:47 PM
JJM  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 100
Worst part is plumbers rates are a heck of lot higher than electricians - at least here in the NYC area.

But come on, running a solid pipe right in the front of the access door? And no flex? You ran flex for electrical portion (by the way, what kind of elbows are those coming out of the side). Did this thing get/require inspecton?

By the way, some codes and utilities specifically prohibit drip legs or sediment traps outdoors. The reason being is any condensation that might accumulate in the drip leg could freeze, resulting in the drip leg cracking, and hence a gas leak.

I was wondering, why the concrete base when it appears this genset already has a pre-formed base, ready to mount directly to the ground. Granted, a concrete base is better, but it doesn't seem necessary for this one - as is the case with many air cooled units.


Re: Gas in the Way? #111373
11/20/06 08:01 PM
11/20/06 08:01 PM
Rewired  Offline
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 558
Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Well as of yet I have not been back to the job as I am waiting for some millwork to get done before I return ( this Friday most likely but thats unknown as of yet, I will make it a point to post weather or not this has been repaired. As for the requirement of those "dirt pockets" or "drip legs" I have seen them on gas appliances outdoors, as there is one that exists on my pool heater just before the gas line enters the heater itself. might not be required but as you stated Belder, you highly reccomend it and well, if I dropped large coin on a fancy machine like that I would want a dirt trap on the gas line!

PEdoubleNizzle: There is a valve in the line but it is out of the picture and I imagine there is a union there somewhere too but I can't place exactly where its located. There has to be one or how else would they be able to tie into the line without spinning the generator around? Agreed it should be right AT the unit so you are not taking out a huge piece of gas line if you decide to disconnect the generator..

Off topic: We have a natural gas compressor at the side of our house that was installed by the gas company that has a valve, flex line then a union in that order but no "dirt pocket" for the only reason I can think of is the inlet to the compressor points down, therefore nothing can really get up and into the machine.

Joe: Those lil' elbows coming out the side are for plastic sealtite. Those are the "regular" kind but you can get them where they are actually "adjustable" from anywhere between 0-90 degrees. Just happened I got one that matched the color of the unit and one that didn't. BTW the bigger flex ( 1") is for the power and
"utility sense" conductors, and the smaller
one is for an LED down by the transfer switch to indicate any fault that occurs with the gennie. Still waiting for the inspector to see it as well.
As for the concrete pad, the HO owns his own construction company, and for the time and material it set him back to pour a base, it would have been kinda crazy NOT to do it..

I will post more later when I find out if they repair the gas line and take a picture if so!


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