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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 25
Nice until you start carrying a load through all of them at once lol!

Luke McCoy The NEC Crazy Boy
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 812
Looks cheesy I'll agree, nice use for those insulation scraps though.

Bundling/derating would make it a bigger PITA than it's worth though.

Ian A.

Is there anyone on board who knows how to fly a plane?
Joined: Sep 2002
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 27
Just what is a code Nazi?
I don't like it geuss that makes me one.

Sometimes not getting what you want can be an incredible stroke of luck.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,422
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Cat Servant
I suppose one might start the definition of 'code nazi' with: Someone obsessed with his authority, who is unable to distinguish between his oersonal preferences and actual code requirements.'

Let me illustrate the point with an actual example: A maintenance guy with some extra time on his hands took to painting the cabinets, including the "Flamables" cabinet, in the workshop. For his pleasure, he painted them blue with white doors. Another person objected, saying it was required that the 'Flamables" cabinet be painted yellow. Here's a summary of the discussions that followed:

MG: "Really? What code says that?"

CN: "Well, how come you only see yellow ones then?"

MG: "Here's a catalog. I see them in yellow, red, white, green and even black."

CN: "well, code says it."

MG: "Here's an ANSI standard for these cabinets, It says nothing about the color of the cabinet, just that it has to be marked."

CN: "Well, it the local code."

MG: "Here's the local code. From what I see, the HAVE to be blue, because there's propane stored in them."

CN: "Well, it still isn't right, there must be another code."

MG: "Good. You find it and I'll follow it. I've done more than my share already."

And the issue continued to fester, with the work subject to all manner of critique. One bearing had too much grease, while another didn't have enough; one drive was too tight, while another wasn't tight enough. Etc. I think that explains what is a 'code nazi.'

In the examples shown here, it's not the installers' fault the NEC is vague on this point, only saying the cables will be 'supported.' Perhaps the code panel left it vague on purpose, only wanting the stuff not to 'flop around too much.' There's certainly no requirement that any sort of listing or approval be necessary for the support means.

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
I have nor read through all the post so I apologize before hand if I repeat other people's comments.

From the inspector POV, bundling/derating would be an issue. The workmanship would be another giving the intent of supporting cable. In the event of a short, an unsupported cable will whip that will put strain on the connections at the end.

As a contractor, I would be mad as hell for the waste of time to install the wire if it was scrap, motifided if they used good wire. Pissed off for the lack of planning for not having the correct material on site.

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,883
Likes: 27
Reno, that is not a code nazi that is an incompetent jerk.
A code nazi would be someone who wanted to enforce the code to an absurd level.
"That staple is 12.25" away from the box" when there was no easy way to get one any closer or "that PVC pipe strap is white instead of gray".
I have actually heard of inspectors saying you can't use "all purpose" PVC cement on RNC because it was for plumbing.

Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,422
Likes: 1
Cat Servant
I stand corrected laugh

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
twh Offline
"That staple is 12.25" away from the box"...
I like that example. I got caught with 2 plugs 12'2" apart, because, "You don't expect the inspection department to give you two inches, do you?" Since then, I haven't given an inspector an inch, either.

Anyway, on topic, around here everything must be approved for it's use. We get away with using a conduit strap on cable, because it's approved as a support. I doubt that a piece of wire is rated as a support. If you allow the cable as a support, do you require a minimum size - like #12awg for 3/3? How would an inspector word that rejection notice so it referred to the code?

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
When I wear my inspector hat, I enforce the intent of the code, not just what is written. The codes as written at least the NEC in the US, is to be consider the absolute minimum to be safe. It even states that code is not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use (Yes I plagerized. Sue me smile ).

For example, a sparkie puts a 120 volt pump 500 feet from the panel, uses a 20 amp breaker and #12 wire. Is it a violation of the code as written? Nope. Will I red tag it? If I could not get the right answer out of the electrican, you bet. As an inspector, it is your job to protect the ones you serve. If the contractor is dumb enough, to install it, he will likely fight it. There are standards and exceptable practices, building and now even energy codes coming into play when inspecting too that will back you up. I do believe that voltage drop will finally become a code issue, not just a standard or specification here in the future.

When I wear my elctrician hat, I install in a manner where my work does not need to be scuntinized. I do not try to place a staple exactly at 12 inches from a box nor do I try to hit 4 1/2 feet after that. Not to boast, when you look at my work, there is no guessing if it is to code or not, ever to a code nazi, as someone put it on this board. smile

My conduit straps are rearly at 10 feet. If they are, I can gurantee that you can tell at any distance they are 10 feet apart. This is a another good example. If a emt conduit is supported at every 9 1/2 feet, can it be red tag for lack of support? The code states not to exceed 10 feet.

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
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