ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
diazed fuses
by annemarie1. 02/24/18 08:05 PM
Solid state relay or not
by gfretwell. 02/24/18 04:52 AM
Whirlpool Recalls KitchenAid Electric Kettles
by Admin. 02/22/18 11:35 AM
110.26
by gfretwell. 02/18/18 12:14 AM
New in the Gallery:
Housebilding DIY wiring
SE cable question
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 6 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
How things are really done #10950
06/24/02 08:43 PM
06/24/02 08:43 PM
L
Looee  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 11
Willmar, MN, 56201
I just finished my first year in an electrician program and I got a summer job working for an electrician. Now in school we were taught that we need to tape a white wire black if it is used to carry current, like the code book says. My boss says don't worry about it, nobody actually does it and the inspector doesn't care if it isn't taped black. Do other electricians re-identify any current carrying white wires? And are there a lot of code rules that people really don't follow?


Looee

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: How things are really done #10951
06/24/02 08:57 PM
06/24/02 08:57 PM
A
arseegee  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 324
Statesboro, GA USA
We identify the white conductor if it is used as a hot. You will find that there are a lot of ol'timers who only worry about passing inspection and not about the code. That's just the way it is. Sad but true!

Re: How things are really done #10952
06/24/02 10:05 PM
06/24/02 10:05 PM
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Looee,

If I may explain further...

The grounded conductor (sometimes referred to as "neutral") does indeed carry current, as should be either white or grey. If it is used as an ungrounded conductor in a switch loop or for a 240V circuit, it must be permanently marked with a color other than white, grey, green, or green with a yellow stripe.

In switch loops, it is also important to use the marked white wire as the unswitched leg of the loop, and returning the hot on the black wire.


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Re: How things are really done #10953
06/25/02 04:56 AM
06/25/02 04:56 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,347
66' nails it Looee ,
but you've a point in the real world not subscribing to the letter of the NEC [Linked Image]

Re: How things are really done #10954
06/25/02 06:35 AM
06/25/02 06:35 AM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Wasn't re-identification of a white wire in a NM cable used as a switch loop only recently REQUIRED. I know many people have always done it anyway, but I think the requirement actually appeared only within the past few code cycles. The assumption used to be that only qualified persons would be working on the circuit, and would recognize the practice.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Re: How things are really done #10955
06/25/02 08:40 AM
06/25/02 08:40 AM
M
motor-T  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 280
Girard, Ohio, USA
Looee:

Quote
My boss says don't worry about it, nobody actually does it and the inspector doesn't care if it isn't taped black. Do other electricians re-identify any current carrying white wires?

I do its is code and as written shall be done, sorta like carved in stone tablets.
I believe this code change is one cycle old, and it used to be that and acccepted practice
that any white wire tied to blacks was the first part of the switch leg, and everybody knew it, but things change. Even then I knew of people who would Re-identify that switch wire even before it was mandatory.
I look at it in two ways First it code and must be done, and Second there is a liability issue by not complying with the code, either one should be enough to convince even older Electricians to go along with the change.

Just my opinion.

-Mark-

[This message has been edited by motor-T (edited 06-25-2002).]

Re: How things are really done #10956
06/25/02 10:32 AM
06/25/02 10:32 AM
C
caselec  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
San Jose, CA
The 99 NEC is the first addition to require re-identification of the white wire when uses for switch loops. If the area your working in is still using the 96 addition such as in CA re-identification is optional.


Curt Swartz
Re: How things are really done #10957
06/25/02 08:18 PM
06/25/02 08:18 PM
E
Electric Eagle  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 914
Alpharetta, GA
While I'm not that much of an old timer(33,started at 16), I just recently started re-marking the white when used as a "hot". The code says permantent and durable marking, so I use a Sharpie to color the wire. I'm affraid some inspector will say that tape isn't permanent or durable enough.

I recently had a customer call me that had tried to wire something with out me. They couldn't figure out why the breaker tripped every time they flipped the switch. Upon inspection I found that she, yes she, took appart a j-box and put it back with all whites together and all blacks together. She couldn't understand why a white was supposed to be with the blacks. This is one reason for the need to mark the wire.

Re: How things are really done #10958
06/25/02 09:18 PM
06/25/02 09:18 PM
A
arseegee  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 324
Statesboro, GA USA
Funny how things work out sometimes. Today I had an emergency job at a dentist office that I had wired on two years ago. We had done the addition which had a couple of patient rooms, the dentist's office, lab, sterilization room and lots of x-ray equipment ( if you've never done one, try it, it's gobs of fun). But the old existing building had been wired in greenfield. So I get a frantic call from their office yesterday that the lights are out and the breaker shoots fire when you try to reset it. To make a long story short the insulation on one of the lighting circuits had deteriorated and was arcing out. We told them to shut down and we would gut the old greefield and solve the problem. So today thats exactly what we did.
Now I had one of my helpers open up a switch box to see if it was fed from old or new wiring. He said well there's only one new BX in the box and it's tagged red on the white wire. He didn't get it being a newbie, but when I explained the rule it hit him. "OK, so when you change a white to a hot you've got to mark it so you don't get bit"... I said "that's right"!


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
noderaser
noderaser
Portland, Oregon, United States
Posts: 404
Joined: March 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 9
BigB 4
Popular Topics(Views)
244,079 Are you busy
181,084 Re: Forum
171,320 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.022s Queries: 14 (0.005s) Memory: 1.0020 MB (Peak: 1.1706 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-02-25 13:21:20 UTC