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#108463 04/13/04 08:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,287
What's wrong with this picture? All safety switches are being used as
Service Disconnects on a multi occupancy building. Is this dangerous or
is it practical?

George Little

[Linked Image]

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#108464 04/13/04 11:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,437
Are they sandwiched together to the point that the disconnect handles can't move???


#108465 04/13/04 11:29 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
From the 1996 NEC:

230-71. Maximum Number of Disconnects

(a) General.
The sevice disconnecting means for each service permitted by Section 230-2, or for each set of service-entrace conductors permitted by Section 230-40, Exception No. 1, shall consist of not more thank six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of seperate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard. There shall be no more than six disconnects per service grouped in any one location.

And it's "substantially and materially similar" in the '99 and '02 codes...

Dangerous? Probably not. Practical? Well, if not having to appeal for a zoning variance due to non code compliance when you go to sell the building is practical...

[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 04-13-2004).]

#108466 04/13/04 11:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,437
I knew that! [Linked Image]

#108467 04/14/04 06:42 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
This is quite common in No. VA. The use is for townhouses, or rows of warehouses. The POCO does not (will not) hit them individually, so they choose a common location.

How is it justified???? Why not? Each service has only ONE disconnect (though agreed this one looks as if it may be a bit different), it is only multiple services grouped at a common location.

One of the reasons I don't "pop" on here as much - actually, I do, I just don't answer as many questions- is we do not use the 2002 code, we're on the 99, and I have not updated my class book yet until I know which code we will use. If there is a reference in the 2002 prohibiting this, let me know.



#108468 04/16/04 01:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 76
Not really dangerous, very practicle...but still a violation in my opinion. Max number of Discos should be 6...7 if one is used for a Fire Pump.
I didn't see the purpose for the CT cabinet,with individual self contained meters, either.
Probably should've calculated the service, & installed a main Disc. but in My location, the POCO won't allow a Disc. before their meters, this is more than likely how this evolved.
I believe I would've tried to get the building Owner to install a main disc, CT metered, & individually metered the 10, or added an estimated cost to the rent, & included it.

#108469 04/16/04 07:05 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,287
You cant do that here!
From SoCA Edison's Service requirements:

"A main disconnect shall be installed on the line side of a group of more than six meter sockets,
safety socket boxes, instrument transformer boxes or switchboards.
A main disconnect shall be installed on the line side of groups of two to six meter sockets,
safety socket boxes, instrument transformer boxes or switchboards where groups of switches,
circuit breakers, or disconnects that constitute the meter switch, and the total number of
switches or disconnects exceeds six.2/
The main disconnect may be a fused switch, or a circuit breaker. Where fuses are installed, the
Company is not responsible for their replacement. Main disconnect enclosures containing
unmetered conductors shall be sealable"


#108470 04/18/04 10:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,287
Just another case of Group Metering:

[Linked Image]


#108471 04/18/04 11:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,437
Is this another "Kodak Moment" from your trip into Mexico?
I'm curious if Mexico has ANY type of electrical permit/inspection process? It'd be interesting to see an electrical related accident compilation for down there similar to the one that Bill posted for Ontario Canada

Interesting... But probably a bit morbid! [Linked Image]


PS Is that an "Urban" meter tree? [Linked Image]

#108472 04/19/04 12:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
Another jewel from Joe's Little Shop of (Meter) Horrors at [OR]

"Disconnects! Disconnects? We don’t have to show you any steenking disconnects!"

[Linked Image from]

[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 04-19-2004).]

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