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Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105592 05/13/05 12:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
RSmike Offline
This whole install would have been much nicer if a ground bar was put in the wire trough and then brought back to the main panel. Then the split bolt would not have been needed using one big #6 ground back into the panel. And then the 'neutrals' could have been on one side the 'grounds' on the other. Then we can either put in the green screw or remove it if it's a subpanel. Right?

It took me several minutes of reading and looking at this thread before I realized that that green tape and all those grounds were coming from that wire trough.

Shame Shame. It's like they almost knew what they were doing until they had all those bare copper wires to deal with.

Is it safe? Yes I think in a fault condition it would perform. Ultimately that's the test. For the most part it's a nice clean installation.

It's almost like the installer ran out of parts and just shoved in that split bolt to go fishing early.


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Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105593 05/13/05 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 145
chipmunk Offline
I am not familiar with the subtelties of the NEC, but a question. Does the NEC not say something about "one conductor per terminal" with regards to neutrals and EGCs for branch circuits? And if so, would that not apply to all the individual EGCs under one splitbolt? Or does that just apply to the Grounded conductors and I am way off base?

Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105594 05/13/05 08:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
Active 1 Offline
Well to start I thought the split bolt is for 2 conductors only not 32.

I don't understand why the #6 Cu is in the split bolt because it ends up in the lug next to the nutral.

They should have used a lug adapter on the ground bar and added a g bar if needed. Probibly costs less than the big split bolt. I never see the 00? looped like that.

I could not say if it's a violation with out looking but it would seem like your bonding the nutral in 2 places in the same panel.

They tried to make it neat by tieing all the cunductors together even if it is bad.

I also see the 2 nutrals under 1 screw.

I don't see the piont in the gutter but like I said we don't see NM.

Having about 60-90 conductors going thru 1 nipple is a dumb design.

I also thought that was a green wire. Now I see it's all the grounds taped together.

What a joke.

Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105595 05/14/05 12:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 212
Gregtaylor Offline
How many conductors in cross-section in that gutter? Looks like at least 85 to me.

Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105596 05/15/05 08:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Electricmanscott Offline
I dont't think 408.20 (408.40 in '05)has been violated here. There are terminal bars installed they just have not been used. When used as service equipment the unused terminals in the "neutral bars" (my term) can be used to terminate equipment grounding conductors. No need to install addtional "ground bars" unless you run out of terminals. I think the splitbolt is a violation and I suspect that the trough is over filled. Basically a hack job.

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 05-15-2005).]

Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105597 05/15/05 11:47 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 23
The_Judge Offline
I'm curious, Joe, did you get a chance to visit with this guy? Was he having a really really bad day?

Why the gutter?

Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105598 05/16/05 07:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Joe Tedesco Offline OP
No contact was made with the installers. One of my students took me to this site during lunch while I was in Albany. He said he would let me know if the job was signed off. The wireway is unusual, and maybe because the installers are use to working in areas around a shop.

The fill rules are different than they are in Chapter 9, Table 1, though.

Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105599 05/17/05 09:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 680
walrus Offline
Someone mentioned using a ground bar in the trough which I believe would have made a neater install. I've seen it done many times. My question if it was done, how would size condutor from ground bar back to panel bus?

Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105600 05/21/05 10:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 99
richard Offline
Do the coiled feeders at top create an additional magnetic "choke effect"?

Re: Will the AHJ accept this installation? #105601 05/21/05 08:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Larry Fine Offline
As Joe suggested in his last post, it sure looks like this is the first residential job done by a commercial electrician. Note the number tags on the blacks.

"Where's the conduit and troughs?"

"Why are there bare wires?"

There was no reason to keep the EGC's off the neutral buses since the service cable's neutral goes exactly there anyway. At least they installed the enclosure bonding screw.

Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
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