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#100719 - 12/16/06 10:23 PM 230.2 Number of Services  
djelectric  Offline
New Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7
PA
Hi Everyone, I am dealing with a double house with two existing services and two different owners (two drops from power co. one to each side)and wondered how long 230.2 has been in the NEC ?
If I up grade one of these services the power co will require me to group them on one side to meet 230.2. However property owners do not get along and will not allow the neighbors meter and disconnect on their side of the house let alone the feeder thru their basement.
What do you do in situations like this ?
P.S. Power co has hundreds of buildings with more than one service drop with the same characteristics and no fire wall to a multi occupancy building.


Dave

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#100720 - 12/17/06 08:13 AM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
It sounds to me like two separate buildings that happen to touch.

I would expect to maintain the two drops.

If each person owns their half neither has any obligation to allow the others electrical equipment on their property.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#100721 - 12/17/06 10:11 AM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
djelectric  Offline
New Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7
PA
Iwire,Thank's for your reply.
Double house looks like one house with two front and rear doors with a common center wall.
I can't find any thing in the NEC to get around this situation,the power co and AHJ are standing strong on 230.2.
Any thoughts or code refrences would be a great help.
Thank's Dave


Dave

#100722 - 12/17/06 12:57 PM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
I am not sure I understand what you need to get around.

IMO you have two buildings that share a common wall.

But if the AHJ does not see it that way there is 230.2(B)(1).


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#100723 - 12/17/06 02:54 PM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
djelectric  Offline
New Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7
PA
Iwire, The power co and AHJ think I need to group the services on one half of the building,and install a disconnect out side and feed thru neighbors basement to the other half of the building.Neither property owner will allow the neighbors equipment on or in their 1/2 of the building.
All in all the AHJ is saying there is available space (on neighbors half) and be accessible if I set a disconnect (on neighbors half) and run feeder through neighbors basement to customers panel.
I hope this clears up what I am trying to say.
Thank's Dave


Dave

#100724 - 12/17/06 03:19 PM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
J_Erickson  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Milford, MA USA
The situation described is one building. Building code refers to them as "multiple single family dwellings". In order to be considered 2 buildings, they would need to have a fire wall between them. i.e. block wall. Not a fire partition which would be 5/8 gypsum, etc.

As far as how to deal with it with utility and inspector, I don't know. I'd fight with the utility. Ask to talk to a supervisor, and then their supervisor. Send a registered letter and get a written response. Tell them your attorney will be fighting them. Often, I get different answers from different people in the same utility. In MA, you would have some ground to stand on with inspector as there is a provision for not increasing the magnitude of an existing violation. Separate ownership makes this situation difficult. If neither owner will cooperate, there is no way to make this completely legal. You can't group the disconnects if one party resists.


John Erickson

#100725 - 12/17/06 08:08 PM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
As far as service drops are concerned, the local utility rules trump the NEC. They are the "AHJ."

Just as important, there is already substantial law on the matter. The utility has right of "eminent domain;" if they order the stuff grouped together, the parties will not be allowed to "forbid" anything!
Likewise, neither neighbor would have the 'right' to deny the other access to the disconnect.

Now, it's the job of the town, and the PoCo, to solve this mess. You're just the contractor. If there's a problem, it will be up to them to take the necessary steps..


#100726 - 12/18/06 03:11 AM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,103
Estero,Fl,usa
I am not sure how anyone could compel owner A to have owner B's feeder in his house. It would certainly make stealing power easy tho.
Can you say Kupltap?
The easy, if ugly answer, is to put the metering and service equipment on the front of the house where the property lines meet.


Greg Fretwell

#100727 - 12/18/06 08:22 AM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
john p  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Bemidji,MN.USA
Hey what are you doing in my yard......
I can go see my meter...
Get out I dont dont like you in my yard.

What a mess.

good luck.


#100728 - 12/18/06 09:48 AM Re: 230.2 Number of Services  
J_Erickson  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 13
Milford, MA USA
If I own one side, (depending on how property is deeded) and I do not want the other guy's equipment on it, good luck. Much will depend on how the property is deeded. Some are "checkerboarded" while others have property line down the middle. If proprty line is down the middle, there will be a trespassing issue. The town can not "make" you do anything. I used to do a lot of work for a utility, and did a lot of work where they would pay to correct an existing situation where there was a trespassing issue. I don't believe that anyone could make the owner of one side give an easement to the other party if he were opposed.

If however, commion area were checkerboarded, one owner would probably be able to install his meter on the other side of the duplex, and pipe around the building to his side. Still might be a code violation if you can't group the 2 disconnects, but inspector might be inclined to overlook it.

I still think this issue is complex at best.


John Erickson

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