The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#99771 - 09/04/06 08:32 PM Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?
gfretwell Offline

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
314.23(E)&(F) says you can support enclosures from raceways and 352.12(B) referencing 352.10(H) says you can't support anything but conduit bodies from RNC. Can you support a swimming pool wet niche "J" box from RNC? How about a transformer?

I know we routinely OK the J box. Is it really a violation?
Greg Fretwell
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#99772 - 09/05/06 03:58 AM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?
resqcapt19 Offline
Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
The specific rules always "trump" the general rules.

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 09-05-2006).]
#99773 - 09/05/06 09:06 AM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?
earlydean Offline
Registered: 12/22/03
Posts: 749
Loc: Griswold, CT, USA
No, you cannot support neither a deck box or a transformer with PVC conduit. 90.3 tells us that information in Chapters 1-4 apply generally, and Chapters 5-7 supplement or modify the general rules.
314.23(E)&(F) tells us we can support a splicing device with RMC or IMC conduit (the only 2 wiring methods that can be threaded wrenchtight).
352.10(H) allows conduit bodies containing splicing devices (wire-nuts).
Both transformers and deck boxes need to be listed (680.24) Nowhere in 680.24 does it allow the PVC conduit to support the deck box or transformer.

It really is a violation!

[This message has been edited by earlydean (edited 09-05-2006).]
#99774 - 09/05/06 11:37 AM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?
gfretwell Offline

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The PVC J boxes really do not have a place to provide additional support.
Usually they do just get stuck up on the stubs that come out of the ground. If the pool is built on a stem wall and the equipment is on the ground these can be on some pretty tall pipes. I have never liked it but it is SOP. The other day I had a fellow IAEI inspector say the same rule would allow a transformer if it was made of a suitable material with threaded hubs. I drew the line there. I see you agree with my original contention, that the J boxes were also illegal, although I don't know how else you would do it.
Mine are really supported by the RNC but I have a clamp within an inch of the J box and they are against the wall.
Greg Fretwell
#99775 - 09/05/06 12:39 PM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?
George Little Offline
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
There's some Listed equipment out there made by I think a company called "Thermcraft" and sold through T & B. The deck boxes are supported by an optional solid post or an optional bracket suport. They also are Listed for multiple lights with terminations for more than one fixture. I saw them when I was at the Jubilee in FL. Greg you might remember the booth where the guy was pushing their products.
Found a site that I was talking about:

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 09-05-2006).]
George Little
#99776 - 09/05/06 07:54 PM Re: Does 352.12 trump 314.23(E)&(F)?
gfretwell Offline

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9066
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Interesting George. The Thermocraft is the box we see but I never see the support hardware. Usually it is just a 1x3 PT scrap they find in the dumpster from the window framers and strapped to the raceways.

(Yeah I suppose they might bring a 1x3 but I doubt it)
Greg Fretwell


2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box

Recent Posts
Looking for older post
by sparkyinak
01/23/17 12:27 AM
License exam
01/22/17 11:33 PM
Members: Non-Members: Did you know?
by Admin
01/22/17 02:34 PM
Safety at heights?
by HotLine1
01/21/17 08:51 PM
International Wire Colour Codes
by Texas_Ranger
01/21/17 03:29 PM

Who's Online
2 registered (Admin, sparkyinak), 82 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Top Posters
gfretwell 9066
Trumpy 8560
pauluk 7693
HotLine1 6833
sparky 5545
Member Spotlight
Member Since: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals