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#99191 - 07/28/06 01:20 PM Pop Rivets
George Little Offline
Member
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Can an electrician use a pop rivet to secure an equipment grounding conductor to the box if he terminates the wire in a ring connector?
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George Little
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#99192 - 07/28/06 02:03 PM Re: Pop Rivets
rabbitgun Offline
Member
Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 21
Well he can but it would not meet NEC requirements unless it was listed for the purpose.

See 250.148 (C)
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#99193 - 07/28/06 02:36 PM Re: Pop Rivets
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Rabbit, interestingly green ground screws are not listed for the purpose either.

George I am not sure, I see manufactures do it, of course many times they are very loose.
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#99194 - 07/28/06 02:46 PM Re: Pop Rivets
rabbitgun Offline
Member
Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 21
But 250.148 (C) does not say that the screw needs to be listed.

..........."by means of a grounding screw that shall be used for no other purpose or a listed grounding device."
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#99195 - 07/28/06 05:48 PM Re: Pop Rivets
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Don't see why not... assuming the rivet is of the right size, and is properly installed.

I'm not going to focus on the rivet body as a 'conductor,' as it is my belief that a firm connection will result in current going directly from the wire, into the metal case... without any need for the rivet to conduct at all.
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#99196 - 08/02/06 09:23 AM Re: Pop Rivets
Elec N Spec Offline
Member
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 33
Loc: Rochester Hills, MI USA
George,

Do you have insomnia and lie in bed at night and think these questions up? Actually it’s a good question. Who’s to say if a bolted connection is any better than a rivet if both are applied right? I have seen riveted grounding or bonding connections as you’ve described on UL listed equipment. That would indicate to me that it could be an approved application as long as the connection was made properly and to the manufactures’ specifications.

By the way gents, I am new to these boards and am an electrical inspector in the same area as George is. He is my mentor, very knowledgeable and a great guy. He has taught me a lot and has answered many questions when I’ve needed help. I’m looking forward to these discussions and have enjoyed lurking in the background.

Regards,

Tony T.
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#99197 - 08/02/06 12:36 PM Re: Pop Rivets
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Welcome to the forum Tony T.

I agree with you, George comes up with some great questions that I have not seen asked before and most times do not have easy answers.


Bob
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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#99198 - 08/03/06 09:14 AM Re: Pop Rivets
Alan Nadon Offline
Member
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
Rabbitgun got it right.
250.148 (C)
Alan--
For those that have the IAEI Analysis of Changes 2005 NEC page 82 has a related item about 250.8 and using a sheet metal screw to attach a lug to a panel = violation

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 08-03-2006).]
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Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
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