The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Trumpy 8
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
2 registered (NORCAL, sparkyinak), 205 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#98946 - 06/27/06 03:41 PM Article 680.22
JoeRossi Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 26
Loc: Washington, NJ
An existing house, no receptacles in the back of the house, an above ground pool is being installed. The Contractor runs a 20amp circuit to a timer, then to a GFCI recpticale with a bubble cover, then to the motor receptacle.
The Inspector trips the recepticale agianst the house and the motor stops. A red-tag is placed on the window stating that you need one branch circuit for the receptacle at the pool and one branch circuit for the receptacle for the 10-20' rule.
What do you think?
_________________________
Joe Rossi

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#98947 - 06/27/06 05:00 PM Re: Article 680.22
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Joe;
Welcome to another Jersey Guy

OK, Pool requires a dedicated circuit.
General purpose outlet 10-20'
AG's require twistlock.
Most installs are faceless GFI, or GFI CB; bubble mandatory.
Please note that the key wording is "General Purpose" receptacle within 10-20' zone; it does not have to be dedicated.

This should not fall under the infamous 'Rehab'

John

PS: Which Washington???

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 06-27-2006).]
_________________________
John

Top
#98948 - 06/27/06 06:28 PM Re: Article 680.22
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
A pool pump or light needs a special circuit.It ends up being wire in pipe with a green wire ground but it never says dedicated. My general use receptacle is on the wet niche light circuit. I pulled 2 green wires so the light one was unspliced.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#98949 - 06/27/06 07:42 PM Re: Article 680.22
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Let's start with - is this a storable pool? Is the pump Listed for use with a storable pool? Sounds like it is a storable pool since there is no mention of bonding. If it's a pump Listed for a storable pool the cord length will put it beyond the 10' and you will be using a straight blade cap and receptacle. 680.7

Unless the manufacturer's spec out a dedicated/separate circuit you could use 210.23 and put the general purpose receptacle on the same circuit as the pump. Do the math
_________________________
George Little

Top
#98950 - 06/27/06 09:09 PM Re: Article 680.22
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
George, the "timer" and fact that there is an inspector there in the first place seems to indicate this is a permanent installation.
Storables are the ones you blow up and the equipment is typically just sitting there on the ground, connected with hoses or hanging on the pool wall.
These things have 25' cords by listing.
The code deals with them as simple portable equipment like an electric drill or weed whacker. Any GFCI outlet will do. The safety is built in the "storable pool pump/light" listing. (double insulated and such)
I recently got into this storable stuff a bit and it is a different breed of cat from "permanent" pool stuff. The call is as easy as simply reading the pump label and the labels on the pool. The equipment is mutually exclusive. You can't use a permanent pump on a storable and vice versa.
I suppose you could install a "storable pool" permanently with permanent equipment, by meeting the 680 Part II rules, but it can't go the other way.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#98951 - 06/28/06 05:08 AM Re: Article 680.22
JoeRossi Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 26
Loc: Washington, NJ
Hotline1, I am from Washington the is on the intersection of Rte 31 & Rte 57.
The question is how many branch circuits do I need?
Remember, there is no existing receptacle, so one needs to be installed. This is the first time I triped a required 10-20' receptalce and the motor stopped. I interpt the code Article 680.22 as needing two branch circuits.
_________________________
Joe Rossi

Top
#98952 - 06/28/06 10:04 AM Re: Article 680.22
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Joe, I don't see this as a violation of 680.22 but it probably does violate 210.23(A)(2).
That has nothing to do with the pool, only the size of the motor, if >10a (3/4hp would be closer to 11)
680.22 is silent about how many outlets can be on the pump circuit.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#98953 - 06/28/06 07:19 PM Re: Article 680.22
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Joe:

"Read" General Purpose Receptacle, 10-20'
It can be from any source. Based on what I said above and this....above grd pool, 120 volt, one branch circuit.

John
_________________________
John

Top
#98954 - 06/29/06 03:35 PM Re: Article 680.22
JoeRossi Offline
Member

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 26
Loc: Washington, NJ
John,

Thanks for the replay. The motor at the pool is 1.5hp. If we go to Table 430.248 we find that this motor is calculated at 20 amps. That is why I enforce that rule that no other circuts be on it. One of these days I am going to bring my amp probe and start a chart on motore draw.

Have a great holiday. PS The circuit was changed.
_________________________
Joe Rossi

Top
#98955 - 06/29/06 05:19 PM Re: Article 680.22
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Joe:
Hmmmmm.
Not for nothing, but....20 amp FLC on 20 amp (#12) circuit. I hope its a 20 amp rated GFCI Device

Also, FYI, what's the HP rating of the GFI device??

John

[This message has been edited by HotLine1 (edited 06-29-2006).]
_________________________
John

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals