The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Trumpy 8
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
2 registered (NORCAL, sparkyinak), 205 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#98824 - 06/08/06 04:52 PM Separate GEC to old sub-panel
IN_Shorty Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 2
Loc: New Albany, IN
Howdy (my first post)!

I got a call from a guy that wants to know if I can run him a separate GEC wire to an old sub-panel (and then replace it with a new sub-panel so he can run new 110/220 grounded outlets from it).

The current panel is run off a 60A feed using old (but still good he claims) 6AWG SEU cable ran under the house. The existing sub-panel was (at one time) the main service for the house and has the old “shotgun shell” fuses with MAIN and RANGE lugs off it with 4 Edison fuses for everything else. The reason for not running all new cable is the expense (CU and AL are both obscenely priced now!!!) He can wait on this but I'm wondering if it can be done code complaint (and safe of course) with less expense. Code references appreciated.

Thanks.

P.S. I haven’t personally inspected this yet (and I will before I commit to it) but this guy is pretty savvy so I’ll bet his observations are pretty accurate.

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#98825 - 06/08/06 06:32 PM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
LoneGunman Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 141
Loc: Florida
Wow, talk about a coincidence. I just replaced two old fuse sub panels in a trailer, yesterday and today, same one with the range and main pull outs. They added a new main outside and then fed the subpanels. We were just discussing this lastnight in the chatroom, about running a new GEC, there were no objections to it.



[This message has been edited by LoneGunman (edited 06-08-2006).]

Top
#98826 - 06/09/06 07:25 PM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
ShockMe77 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/05
Posts: 823
Loc: Rahway, New Jersey
Isn't the GEC always supposed to be run to the main breaker disconnect location so that it can be bonded to the grounded conductor?

[This message has been edited by ShockMe77 (edited 06-09-2006).]

Top
#98827 - 06/09/06 08:08 PM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
LoneGunman Offline
Member

Registered: 10/02/05
Posts: 141
Loc: Florida
Yeah, I shouldve said EGC.

Top
#98828 - 06/10/06 07:00 AM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
IN_Shorty Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 05/06/06
Posts: 2
Loc: New Albany, IN
Dyslexic’s untie! (er, unite).

Yes, I too mean a connector point for that little green/bare wire from the third prong in the smiley faced outlet :-).

Any code references (we want to be able to back it up in case the insurance company balks). Thanks - IN_Shorty

Top
#98829 - 06/10/06 12:26 PM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
Shorty, read 300.3(B)

Roger

Top
#98830 - 06/13/06 09:17 AM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
Alan Nadon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
The 6/3 cable will have a stranded outer conductor that cannot become an insulated, grounded, conductor no matter how much tape you use.
If you had three insulated conductors then 300.3(B)2 would help.
Alan--
_________________________
Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

Top
#98831 - 06/15/06 05:50 PM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
Larry Fine Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Richmond, VA
 Quote:
Dyslexic’s untie! (er, unite).


Have you heard about the agnostic who suffered from insomnia and dyslexia?

He stayed up all night pondering the existence of Dog.

[This message has been edited by Larry Fine (edited 06-15-2006).]
_________________________
Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com

Top
#98832 - 07/22/06 11:31 AM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
tdhorne Offline
Member

Registered: 03/22/01
Posts: 344
Loc: Maryland, USA
OK so just for grins lets say I run Flexible Nonmetallic Conduit (smurf tube) And pull the cable back into it with an insulated conductor to serve as the replacement neutral. Is this compliant providing that the conductors are individually labeled? IF not what happens if I strip the jacket off of the cable first so that it is a wire assembly rather than cable? {Edited to add "Note that I'm also talking about individually labeled conductors in this second case."}
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Edited for spelling.

[This message has been edited by tdhorne (edited 08-04-2006).]
_________________________
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison

Top
#98833 - 07/22/06 07:33 PM Re: Separate GEC to old sub-panel
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
The neutral is supposed to be run in the same cable or raceway as the other conductors. From a practical sense I can see why running it tywrapped together using a non-metalic raceway, would not cause a real problem if you used the same entry to any metal boxes but it is not code compliant.
Just put a small plastic box next to the metal one and nipple in to meet the spirit, if not the letter of the code.
Stripping the wire just strips the listing away from the cable since internal conductors are seldom labelled.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals