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#9881 - 05/18/02 12:52 AM 240v 50a convience outlets
joeh20 Offline
Member
Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 95
Loc: Tullahoma, TN, 37388
My question, A customer with a garage has one welder and wanted 4 50a outlets for this one welder, he wanted one in each corner for convience only, so as to not have long leads all over the floor. Are there any code provision for daisy chaining these as 110v outlets just one 50a breaker in panel and then from first outlet to the next and so on.
I normally wouldn't consider this but thought someone might know a code reference off hand. thanks joe
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#9882 - 05/18/02 05:38 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
Joe Tedesco Offline
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Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 2749
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
No. See 210.3, Exception and 210.23(c)
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#9883 - 05/18/02 06:23 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
Frank Cinker Offline
Member
Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 311
Loc: Pennsylvania
Joe,

That seems to be a common request. It makes sense to the user. However, NEC Article 630 (Electric Welders) would not permit such an installation.

Your local electrical inspector may choose to waive the code article and permit you to install as "convenience" outlets as you describe. I would have no problem with that.

Your local inspector may not permit such an installation and justify it with the following reasoning: The owner of the garage may sell his business one day. The new owner may operate several welders at one time not knowing they are fed from one 50 amp circuit breaker.

Frank
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#9884 - 05/18/02 08:43 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
joeh20 Offline
Member
Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 95
Loc: Tullahoma, TN, 37388
Thanks guys, I was hoping to find a valid ref. and got it. Quick work I might add. I had no intention of installing in a chain, buta guy I work with asked for a code, he'll get it monday.
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#9885 - 05/18/02 09:18 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
resqcapt19 Offline
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Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2148
Loc: IL
Frank,
What in 630 would prevent the requested installation?
Don
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#9886 - 05/18/02 12:11 PM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
Scott35 Offline

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Registered: 10/19/00
Posts: 2707
Loc: Anaheim, CA. USA
Seems to me that all 4 outlets may be fed from the same 50 amp branch circuit / breaker [all 4 outlets on the same branch circuit].

Reason[s] being that at this time, there is only one load device intended to be used at one time, and the outlets are for Convenience only - rather than intended for multiple loads to be connected, or run together.

Even if two loads were connected at the same time, this should not be a non-compliance issue to the NEC, because if the circuit is overloaded the OCPD should trip.
This would fall more under the "Bad Designing Conscept" for which at this time there is no Federally Backed Code

Last I saw in Article 90, the NEC couldn't care less if things run inefficiently, per designed criteria, or without some level of inconvienience
[per non-life threatening or non- hazardous results things ].
It [NEC] just doesn't want any Hazardous Situations installed by the installing Gods <hee, hee, hee>

Am I correct, or should I put on the Straight Jacket???


Scott S.E.T.
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#9887 - 05/18/02 04:04 PM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
I would have to agree with Scott. I am not finding specific reference to the scenario. This would parrallel a bathroom or kitchens dedicated circuitry....
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#9888 - 05/18/02 05:37 PM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
George Offline
Member
Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 375
Not being an electrical person, I only have the ICC 1&2 Family dwelling code.

4202.5:

Multioutlet branch circutis shall be limited to a maximum branch-circuit rating of 20 amperes.

This appears to be a big (50amp v 20amp) waiver.

I guess the proper trade off might be a long power cable v. long welding leads.

I would put a 20' or 30' power cable on.
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#9889 - 05/19/02 02:36 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 5303
ok George,
but we can still slip out of 4202.5 because this is not a dwelling....
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#9890 - 05/19/02 07:04 AM Re: 240v 50a convience outlets
Frank Cinker Offline
Member
Registered: 07/29/01
Posts: 311
Loc: Pennsylvania
Don,

I referenced NEC 630.11(B) (Group of Welders) Mainly because I couldn't find anything else even close. Upon reviewing it further and more careful I noticed it states group of welders not group of welder outlets. Based on that I would presume Article 630 would not prohibit such an installation. There doesn't seem to be a clear cut answer I can find in the Code Book.
As Scott mentioned, The OCPD would open in any event to provide safety. Beyond that it's a design issue.

Frank
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