ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 17
Recent Posts
Old decora style outlets
by Admin. 03/25/17 11:40 AM
ESA Arc flash course
by TheShockDoctors. 03/24/17 10:15 AM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/24/17 07:53 AM
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
Dining room plugs
by watersparkfalls. 03/21/17 10:31 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,432 Are you busy
166,150 Re: Forum
160,606 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 80 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#97498 - 02/24/06 02:08 AM j boxes accessibility  
watersparkfalls  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 216
Washington...Not DC
i have had this idea for years, yet never applied it b-4.....
what would you guys think if an electrician wanted to run a raceway into the kitchen of a house properly sized of course for awg and considered derating if neccessary for # of current carrying conductors... this raceway would terminate in a j box(again prop size)behind the stove or fridge. could there be any argument to 314.29? since they took out that horrible word "readily" doesnt this seem permissible since you wont need to remove any building to get to j box, just the stove or fridge?
trying to save money and time and i think with the price of wire it may actually be cost effective now! or maybe i just like my idea from way back when.

thoughts, comments, ridicules wanted....

thanks,
h20


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#97499 - 02/24/06 04:14 AM Re: j boxes accessibility  
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
If I am getting this right, you want to run a good enough size conduit from the panel to a big j-box behind the fridge and then splice/branch out home runs from there. I have seen this method before used for rewiring. It meets code ok. It does not always pass inspection however.


#97500 - 02/24/06 09:11 PM Re: j boxes accessibility  
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
I can't think of any NEC problems. But from a practical standpoint, I've found it is usually more cost effective to install multiple runs of 2 or 3 conductor NM cable. I've been down this road and if you're going to be needing a box larger than 4 & 11/16 square, you're going to be paying a premium price for the box.

I am generally opposed to large J-boxes, they can be a pain when troubleshooting (unless the installer has gone beyond the call of duty and carefully marked all conductors) and if there is an arcing fault in the box, you could knockout quite a few circuits.

However, you should try it at least once, you might like it.

Tom


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

#97501 - 02/24/06 09:26 PM Re: j boxes accessibility  
watersparkfalls  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 216
Washington...Not DC
thanks guys....

i might just try it once and twice if i like it.

h20


#97502 - 02/25/06 01:39 AM Re: j boxes accessibility  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Guys- I think it makes sense if you are going to be possibly adding a circuit after the fact but the problem is that your derating would probably catch up with you real fast.


George Little

#97503 - 03/03/06 06:02 PM Re: j boxes accessibility  
Active 1  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 687
Grayslake IL, USA
We are seeing more of those Sub Zero type friges that look like they are built in with the cabinets. I try to avoid putting any splices in boxes behind big appliances.

We do pipe a box in the cabinet under the sink that works out well.

Tom


#97504 - 03/03/06 09:36 PM Re: j boxes accessibility  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,057
Estero,Fl,usa
Lupe the maid pulls that fridge out to dust behind it. It is "accessible" [Linked Image]


Greg Fretwell

#97505 - 03/04/06 04:46 AM Re: j boxes accessibility  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Many kitchen items the area behind would not be acessable. Many things like ovens fridges etc are being installed much like dishwashers. Squeezed in, blind screwed into trims, and on occasion floors and countertops done after cabs can make them impossible to remove without damage. The maid aint pulling them out if I can't!

Why not behind a cabint back?
If you want to trick it out, get a matching scrap of cab matrial and velcro it on as a cover. Or epoxy it to the J-box cover. I have done both before for people who get antsy about wall plates. (With glass fronts) Otherwise I just use a 4-6 gang deep masonary box and a blank wall plate behind Lower cab drawers, where it will be least noticed.

As for conduit derating, you would have beef it up a bit for a kitchen IMO. #10's +... you might as well just run 12/3, or 12/2/2's (4 conductor) in regular runs. Either way, I do it often, and like the sort of central J-box idea for kitchens. Except for the single shot appliances like GD/DW...


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#97506 - 03/04/06 02:32 PM Re: j boxes accessibility  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Of course, one way to avoid the whole de-rating and wire fill issues is to have the kitchen on a separate, local sub-panel.

Acually, since a kitchen can very easily use eight spaces all by itself, I think a separate panel is the way to go.


#97507 - 03/08/06 02:45 PM Re: j boxes accessibility  
dlhoule  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 73
Saline, MI 48197
renosteinke:

Where are you locating this panel? I like the idea, but not around water or behind anything.


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
TOOL_5150
TOOL_5150
Bay Area
Posts: 61
Joined: August 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.017s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8171 MB (Peak: 0.9903 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-25 17:27:57 UTC