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#97378 - 02/18/06 01:37 PM hydro massage tubs
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
If you have a hydro massage tub and the plumbing is all plastic, is the # 8 solid copper wire needed? Is so, where is it going to? What if you have a brass water spout flowing water into the tub? Any thoughts?

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#97379 - 02/18/06 02:08 PM Re: hydro massage tubs
Gene134 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/13/06
Posts: 5
Loc: Island Lake, Il. 60042
It is needed incase the moter has a short and the casing becomes hot without tripping the breaker. There should be a lug on the side of the motor itself to attach to and then, depending on your jurisdiction, to the cold water and/or the EGC.

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#97380 - 02/18/06 06:28 PM Re: hydro massage tubs
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
If I read 680.62(B) or 680.26(B)(3) it sure sounds like the spout should be bonded. I suppose you have to have the plumber stub it out far enough in the back in metal for a clamp if there is no lug.

add
680.43(D)(4)ex gives a little different spin but since the spout is above the water line it is more likely to become energized.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 02-18-2006).]
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#97381 - 02/18/06 06:37 PM Re: hydro massage tubs
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Greg- Need you to get the Windex out for them thar glasses. Look at 680.74 for HMBT's (I don't catch Greg very often)
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#97382 - 02/18/06 07:16 PM Re: hydro massage tubs
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I need a little spanking now and then.

I guess a spout isn't a system?
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#97383 - 02/19/06 08:38 AM Re: hydro massage tubs
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
Harold no need for any bonding there.
Gene you are confusing equipment grounding and bonding.

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#97384 - 02/19/06 02:00 PM Re: hydro massage tubs
Speedy Petey Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 175
Loc: Upstate, NY
I was going to make the same comment.
The lug on the motor has NOTHING to do with grounding.
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"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein

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#97385 - 02/19/06 06:08 PM Re: hydro massage tubs
BigB Offline
Member

Registered: 03/31/04
Posts: 727
Loc: Tucson, AZ USA
I had a home inspector write up a hydromassage tub saying it was not bonded. The tub was inside and the motor was outside. All the plumbing was plastic including the drain. The only two metal objects in the motor area were the motor/pump assembly and the junction box. So I bonded these two together. What else was there to do?
Now if the water supply pipes were metal, with the motor outside the building, would you have to bond the piping to the motor even though a person could never contact both at the same time??? These are the house plumbing pipes I am referring to, not the recirculation piping to the pump.

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#97386 - 02/20/06 11:16 AM Re: hydro massage tubs
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
There are some AHJ's around here making the EC run a #8 wire all the way back to the service panel. However if there is a small piece of metal pipe attached to the spout, do you think it should be bonded to the motor? Or is it small enough to let it slide, and not bond it at all?

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#97387 - 02/20/06 01:59 PM Re: hydro massage tubs
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
As George pointed out a HM tub is not a spa and a spout is not a system so you probably don't have to bond it.
On the other hand if a few feet of wire would make you feel better you could.
The AHJ who wants to make the 8ga bond part of grounding system is wrong, at least the way I understand the issue. Our AHJs don't even like to admit grounding current could flow to the pool, and that is exactly what will happen. That huge Ufer, full of water, out there is going to be the most effective electrode on the property.

Mine got bonded back to the panel with a #8 anyway simply because the spa and pool are bonded and the spa heater has an 8ga EGC along with the pool light #12, 4 pumps with their #12s and the incidental bonding of all the electrical that is attached to the screen cage which is part of "the grid".
I don't think you can have too much bonding.
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