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#97185 - 01/30/06 05:39 PM Let me have 12"
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
Do any inspectors in you jurisdictions permit an exception to 334.15(C) for the first 12" off a foundation wall, or off the middle support beam in a basement.
In other words, can you staple smaller sized NM cables to the bottom of joists within 12" of the walls, or beams?

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#97186 - 01/30/06 08:43 PM Re: Let me have 12"
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Redsy- We're not on the '05 code here in Michigan but I follow you with the 12" example. I guess I'd have a problem with it and ask the installer to comply with the literal wording of the code. In that same code section they make reference to having a non-metallic bushing or adapter on the end of the conduit or tubing where the NM cable enters. Does this mean we can't use a metal fitting in this application? This is new in the '05. Another new item in Article 334 is the reference to using thermal insulation for fire or draft stopping & derating conductor ampacity when running 2 or more cables through a framing member- 334.80.

I guess the fun will begin soon

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 01-30-2006).]
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George Little

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#97187 - 01/31/06 07:29 AM Re: Let me have 12"
Alan Nadon Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
No exception for NM on the bottom of joist.

George: One benefit of Indiana making up their own rules is they also deleted the paragraph about derating in 334.80

Alan--
_________________________
Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

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#97188 - 01/31/06 09:43 AM Re: Let me have 12"
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Derating really won't be an issue until it is around 4 RX in a hole since 240.4(D) and the 90c insulation creates a lot of wiggle room. The only tricky spot may be right above the panel. (but that has always been ugly).
Interesting question ... what if I "nipple" through the insulated hole? A nipple <24" does not get derated. Short little pieces of conduit may be saved from the dumpster by this.
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Greg Fretwell

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#97189 - 01/31/06 05:07 PM Re: Let me have 12"
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
OK, no staples. What about "Stack-Its" installed on the beam at the proper spacing 4'6"(or less),and several or more NM Cables supported by them? This is common in my neck of the woods, as is the 12" rule.

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#97190 - 01/31/06 06:03 PM Re: Let me have 12"
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Redsy- I can support your Steelers but not your 12" rule. Small cables below the floor joist in the basement need protection via running boards or some other method but the 12" rule don't get it in Michigan
_________________________
George Little

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#97191 - 01/31/06 07:36 PM Re: Let me have 12"
Redsy Offline
Member

Registered: 03/28/01
Posts: 2138
Loc: Bucks County PA
Thank you, Guys.
BTW,

What is the intent of this rule? I've gotten several different opinions.

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 02-01-2006).]

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