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#95560 - 09/21/05 02:32 PM Reducing Washers
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Does anyone have any information on the use of reducing washers?
_________________________
George Little

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#95561 - 09/21/05 02:37 PM Re: Reducing Washers
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
UL White Book

OUTLET BUSHINGS AND FITTINGS (QCRV)

 Quote:
GROUNDING
Metal reducing washers are considered suitable for grounding for use in
circuits over and under 250 V and where installed in accordance with
ANSI/NFPA 70, ‘‘National Electrical Code.’’


That's all I have except they make big holes small.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#95562 - 09/21/05 03:01 PM Re: Reducing Washers
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Thanks Bob- That's what I needed.
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George Little

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#95563 - 09/22/05 04:29 AM Re: Reducing Washers
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
That information really makes me question the technical expertise of UL.
Don
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Don(resqcapt19)

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#95564 - 09/22/05 06:09 AM Re: Reducing Washers
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Don I think the problem is the difference between test conditions and real life.

I have no doubt you or I could make reducing washers carry fault current if we used a wire brush to remove all paint from the enclosure and tightened the lock nuts decently.

However I know I see reducing washers all the time that are up against paint and loose.

I think an inspector could cite 250.12 Clean Surfaces almost every time.

Personally I dislike everything about reducing washers.
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#95565 - 09/22/05 06:30 AM Re: Reducing Washers
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
I discussed this matter with the UL representative of CMP 5 (Article 250). He was surprised as well, but looking at the listing standard, it appears as though under test conditions reducing washers that are listed are capable of carrying a tremendous amount of fault current. I don't recall the exat test now, but it was several thousand amps for a substantial duration.
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Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#95566 - 09/22/05 08:45 AM Re: Reducing Washers
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
I'm sorry, but if the test conditions do not represent a real world installation, the results are worthless.
Don
_________________________
Don(resqcapt19)

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#95567 - 09/22/05 11:22 AM Re: Reducing Washers
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I vote with Bob. Reducing washers keep the connector from falling out but I would use a bonding nut if I wanted to make a secure grounding connection.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#95568 - 09/22/05 04:27 PM Re: Reducing Washers
Tesla Offline
Member

Registered: 06/16/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: Sacramento, CA
Reducers -- gotta hate 'em....

Every time I see them it's a hack job.

I particularly dislike reducers used at NEMA3R disconnects where the installer is shrinking back from a 1 inch KO goof.
_________________________
Tesla

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#95569 - 09/22/05 05:48 PM Re: Reducing Washers
livetoride Offline
Member

Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 109
Loc: san diego ca usa
I hate RE plates. I would rather screw a plate in the can and make sure there is a ground wire. I have had inspectors fail an installation; he wanted reducing washers; I had bolted a cover plate to the top of the box and had a grounding bushing and ground wire in the EMT. My way was better and I proved it to him with a megger. He made me change it to pass inspection. Still scratching my head Rod.

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