ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 16
Recent Posts
Another Forum Update
by Admin. 03/22/17 03:04 PM
Dining room plugs
by watersparkfalls. 03/21/17 10:31 PM
TRUE POWER
by jraef. 03/21/17 09:13 PM
WEG CFW-11 Frequency Inverter
by jraef. 03/21/17 08:50 PM
fuse rejectors
by HotLine1. 03/20/17 08:14 PM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
231,187 Are you busy
165,919 Re: Forum
160,456 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 63 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#95317 - 09/07/05 08:00 PM 310 15 (B)  
big guy  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 59
pa
Am I right in saying if you read 310 15 (B) (4)
A neutral does not have to be derated if it is only serving to carry the laod form one ungrounded conductor.
For Ex

You have 9 # 10 in A 3/4 pipe
4 hot wires
4 neutral wires
1 ground
There would be 4 current carrying conductors in this pipe. The load would be only be recp.

Is this right thanks


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#95318 - 09/07/05 08:42 PM Re: 310 15 (B)  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,798
Brick, NJ USA
Ah, we have to know what the loads are???

Incandescent lighting, fluorescent lighting, motors, etc.

John


John

#95319 - 09/07/05 08:46 PM Re: 310 15 (B)  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
Big Guy, in a two wire circuit, both conductors are current carrying, there is no neutral.

[Linked Image]

Now if the grounded conductor is shared between legs it becomes a neutral.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Roger


#95320 - 09/08/05 05:51 AM Re: 310 15 (B)  
big guy  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 59
pa
The load is just common 120 volt recp.

I want to know if the neutral is a current carrying conductor

If each hot wire has is own neutral.Do you have derate the neutral with the hot wires.
I hope this clears it up better.

thanks


#95321 - 09/08/05 06:03 AM Re: 310 15 (B)  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
Big Guy, yes in your two wire circuits both wires are current carrying conductors, it wouldn't matter what the voltage is, see the first graphic.

In your question you have 8 current carrying conductors.

Roger


#95322 - 09/08/05 06:06 AM Re: 310 15 (B)  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
The short answer is yes the white wire in these circuits is a current carrying conductor.

You do not have a 'neutral' in that circuit. Look at Rogers upper diagram.

What you have you have in the language of the NEC an ungrounded and a grounded conductor.

Your 3/4" pipe has 8 current carrying conductors for the purposes of derating.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#95323 - 09/08/05 06:08 AM Re: 310 15 (B)  
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
Yes and yes.

Look at the diagrams that Roger posted. Any current flowing in a hot wire has to be balanced somewhere. If each hot wire has its own separate neutral, then the current flowing in that neutral _must_ be equal to the current flowing in the hot. Therefore if the hot is counted as a current carrying conductor, the neutral must also be counted.

_Shared_ neutrals under _some_ conditions need no be counted as current carrying conductors. This is because the current flow in the hot will be balanced by the current flow in the opposite hot.

Remember: the current flow in a string of series connected elements is always the same everywhere.

In your example, there would be 8 current carrying conductors.

-Jon


#95324 - 09/15/05 07:58 PM Re: 310 15 (B)  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
This thread is why I think this forum is good.

Thanks guys!


#95325 - 09/18/05 02:41 AM Re: 310 15 (B)  
Local  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19
Sacramento
While I agree with the ideas posted so far I think the NEC says you do not need to count the grounded conductor as a current carrying conductor for the purpose of derating in this instance. The text of the code reads:

310.15 (B)(4)(a)
A Neutral conductor that carries only the unbalanced current from other conductors of the same circuit shall not be required to be counted when applying the provisions of 310.15(B)(2)(a)

I interpret this to read:
"One hot and one neutral count as 1 CCC when applying 310.15(B)(2)(a)"

A multi-wire circuit would require counting the grounded conductor according to 310.15(B)(4)(b&c)

Have I missed the boat? What do you guys think?

[This message has been edited by Local (edited 09-18-2005).]


#95326 - 09/18/05 03:47 AM Re: 310 15 (B)  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Local it is talking about at least a 3-wire ciruit. "...unbalanced current from other conductors of the same circuit"

But I think there's something wrong with the wording here. I think it should be balanced current! Otherwise it is a current carrying conductor, right? At least in single phase it would be. Hmmmm. It's late, and I need beer.


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
NickD
NickD
Amish Country, PA
Posts: 46
Joined: March 2013
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.015s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8162 MB (Peak: 0.9903 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-03-23 06:09:29 UTC