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#95287 - 09/06/05 04:21 PM SER Physical protection
gserve Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 92
Has anyone heard of SER being listed as not needing to be protected from physical protection? Code reference please. Thanks

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#95288 - 09/06/05 05:24 PM Re: SER Physical protection
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
"Needing protection" is a pretty subjective thing- you're generally stuck with what the AHJ says.

I can think of situations where unprotected, open (insulated) condustors have been in place for decades without harm; I also know of places where schedule 80 steel pipe has prooven inadequate.

The photo forums have countless pics of otherwise code-compliant installations where the components were seriously damaged. Such damage is proof that the original install was not adequate- and, with luck, the repair will provide better protection!

Since you mentioned SER, I can only speculate it is being used to supply power to a service. In that case, the local PoCo rules will also apply. These tend to be much more specific than the NEC, and vary widely from place to place.

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#95289 - 09/06/05 06:51 PM Re: SER Physical protection
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Check out 338.10(B)(4)(a) for a guide we need to look at the same protection as needed for NM cable.
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George Little

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#95290 - 09/07/05 04:08 AM Re: SER Physical protection
gserve Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 92
I meant to say physical damage. I was told by someone that physical protection is not needed for SER because it is listed as not needing it.

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#95291 - 09/07/05 02:57 PM Re: SER Physical protection
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
The someone who told you SE cable doesn't need protection was mistaken. Look at 230.50.
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George Little

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#95292 - 09/07/05 03:10 PM Re: SER Physical protection
gserve Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 92
Let me describe the installation. This is a manufactured home. The Service equipment was over 30' away so a disconnect was installed on a 4x4 post next to the home URD was run from the service equipment to the disconnect in PVC. From the back of the disconnect a #2 SER was run under the manufactured home to the 1.5" stub from the panel and they used a 1.5" female PVC adapter and screwed in a 1.5" SER connector into it.They used a PVC 2 hole strap to support it to the frame.

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#95293 - 09/07/05 07:44 PM Re: SER Physical protection
MI Sparky Offline
Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Fenton, MI
George, as much as I respect your input, I must disagree. According to your response that would mean every service change that I have ever done that didnt need a riser was illegal, and out of the bottom of every meter can, if it wasnt in conduit, was illegal.

According to 230.50 they shall be protected against physical damage as in (A) Service cables, WHERE SUBJECT TO PHYSICAL DAMAGE, shall be protected by any of the following.....and so on.

At this point, the electrician should know where or where not the cable itself is subject to physical damage.

Let me edit this...on the side of a house, it is not exposed to PHYSICAL DAMAGE, in this case, it is not exposed to damage that I can see.



[This message has been edited by MI Sparky (edited 09-07-2005).]
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#95294 - 09/07/05 08:17 PM Re: SER Physical protection
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
This protection thing seems to be regional.
In Md they routinely ran romex on running boards on the walls of garages and utility areas. Service entrance cable was strapped up the wall unprotected.
Here in Florida all of that is going to be in some kind of raceway.
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#95295 - 09/08/05 05:21 AM Re: SER Physical protection
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Okay- Let me qualify my answer. The trigger for protection is if the cable is subject to physical damage. This becomes a case by case determination. But to say SE or SER cable don't need physical protection would be not accurate. If it's on the driveway side of a home and the driveway is narrow, maybe a car door opening could cause damage. If it's run through a crawl space it probably wouldn't need physical protection. If it's subject to lawn equipment or storage materials maybe it needs protection. So the answer is definitely/maybe it needs protection
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George Little

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#95296 - 09/08/05 08:42 AM Re: SER Physical protection
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Sorta like "I can't tell you what it is, but I know it when I see it"
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Greg Fretwell

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