The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#94451 - 07/31/05 12:09 AM Final Electrical Inspections
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Before calling for a "final electrical inspection" the following is required:

1.) All appliances, fixtures, outlets, panels, switches, etc. must be installed.

2.) All electrical wiring must be complete.

3.) The panel index must be complete (i.e., the legend located on the electrical panel door that shows which overcurrent device controls the specific appliances or lighting circuits).

I challenge anyone who is involved in the inspection process who would give a "FINAL" electrical inspection when the above simple list is not followed!

Look at the results of a search for "Final Electrical Inspection" on Google:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=final+electrical+inspection&btnG=Search

The results show where the subject of a final electrical inspection is covered in the rules where building departments give their requirements.
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Top
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#94452 - 07/31/05 03:57 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Joe I can only relate what I see here in MA and RI and it is not what you want it to be.

Quote:
1.) All appliances, fixtures, outlets, panels, switches, etc. must be installed.


Appliances?

Hardwired ones yes, cord and plug connected items like washers, dryers, ranges and refrigerators no.

Fixtures?

We have been down that road, in this area blanked lighting outlets are commonly accepted.

The best way to describe what is expected at a final in this area would be "All openings shall be closed and the panel schedule shall be complete".

The inspectors check for NEC compliance, they do not check to see if it matches the prints, they do not check the operation of the circuits.

In this state there is a mandated 1 year warranty, if items do not work the customer will call and we must fix it.

Now you can choose not to believe me, thats your choice. The fact remains I am out in the field meeting inspectors and passing my inspections on a regular basis.

The system in this area as it stands works well, the majority of electrical work I come across is of good quality.

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Top
#94453 - 07/31/05 05:32 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Bob:

One of the reasons that appliances should be installed is to verify their proper connections, this includes disposals, dish washers, trash compactors, and electric ranges, and cook tops to name a few.

I have experienced the installation of the electrical ranges in buildings by the people who delivered the equipment, and found that the range cords, used to supply the range were not properly connected using the correct connector, and instead was just passed through the sharp open knockout.

This can lead to a hazard when the homeowner pulls the range out for cleaning.

I imagine that the inspectors that you have dealt with in MA and RI are comfortable with your work and company and change their rules because you are a nice guy and work for a reputable company.

I hope to hear from any MA and RI electrical inspector here on this board who disagrees with me, and if so, they would admit to doing less than they were hired to do.
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Top
#94454 - 07/31/05 06:14 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
iwire Offline
Moderator
Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Joe, Please humor me for a moment.

A developer decides to build a multi-unit condo building on speculation. They hire a GC and the GC hires subs. We build the building to prints. By the time we get to final inspections some units are usually sold and we may be asked to wire the units owners appliances and fixtures at an extra charge.

However many units will not have been sold an do not have appliances or fixtures. They where not on the prints as they will be supplied by the condo units purchaser

The NEC does not require washers, dryers, refrigerators or luminaires, only provisions for those items. An inspector can not force the owners to install these items at the time of final.

The owner may never install the washer and dryer, they may use a laundry service.

Whatever the case may be it's not the inspectors business to worry about.

If they are not on the prints we turned in for our permit then they are not subject to our final inspection.

Now if we follow the letter of the law in MA another permit should be pulled by whoever does install these items and then inspections should follow. (Yeah...that will happen. )

You may think this is an odd scenario but it is more common then you may think.

Developers do not provide fixtures and appliances for a unit that is unsold.

My point here is not everything is black and white, different jobs require different inspection processes.

My Condo example could just as easily be a group of single family homes built by a developer on spec. When we finish our job per the prints it is time for the inspector to sign us off on the final, appliances and Luminaires not holding things up.


JMO, Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Top
#94455 - 07/31/05 07:32 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Bob:

I understand your scenario very well, and agree that an "Electrical Inspector" can "Final" any job on a unit by unit basis.

Keeping the permits open for those units that are not occupied yet.

If one of those condo owners you mentioned wanted to sell their unit, they probably would have to get a home inspection before the sale would go through.

The lack of any final installations, such as the appliances you mention, may or may not be there, but, again the range and other items that include the other appliances I mentioned usually will be installed after the occupant takes possession of the unit.

I have inspected many condos and buildings in New Haven, Connecticut and Glendale and Pasadena, California areas since 1969, why we even had buildings with "free electricity" for all occupants with a one meter job.

Massachusetts, and RI construction projects are controlled by many political interferences and will probably never change. Not to mention the Union and Non-Union issues.

One of the best experiences I can remember is that I worked in areas where there was no "Political Interference" and we never had any problems when the issues about the condition of a FINAL were considered.

I am waiting for the day that you decide, if ever, to take on a job as an AHJ where you will have an opportunity to go onto jobs that were done be your competitor's, maybe then you will understand.

In the meantime I will ask some of my associates about this issue and based upon the link above will probably find more support for my views that yours.
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Top
#94456 - 07/31/05 08:25 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
George Little Offline
Member
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Joe- I, like you, have been around a long time in the inspection business. I've been an inspector in Michigan for 20+ years and a contractor prior to that. Been up through the chairs in the IAEI Michigan Chapter. Sometimes I don't agree with your "preachings" but on this one you and are 100% in agreement. Bob is obviously an honorable electrician and hopefully one day he will get into inspecting and then he'll realize what a difference there is between contractors.
_________________________
George Little
Top
#94457 - 07/31/05 08:30 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
Joe Tedesco Offline
Member
Registered: 10/07/00
Posts: 3325
Loc: Boston, Massachusetts USA
Thanks George

Let's call in some of the amendments from your State.

Also, how are my "preachings" any different than yours?

Some examples please?
_________________________
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Top
#94458 - 07/31/05 08:34 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
dmattox Offline
Member
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Anaheim, CA
So you would hold off final on a cubicle connection? Where often the banks will not fund money until the buildings are finaled?

I've never had a problem getting finaled with a few loose ends. Though I have a couple things going for me that help:

1) Clean up the job. If you have material and tools everywhere the inspector will think you aren't ready.
2) Be honest with the inspector. I tell the inspector what’s left and why its not done. No inspector I know is going to hold up final because the owner’s forklift charger is still shipping.
3) Have everything labeled in print. A label maker makes your job look like you are on top of things. This makes the inspector more comfortable releasing the building.

Inspectors are human too (well for most cities ). Have the job look professional and be honest with the inspectors and usually they will be helpful on getting the building passed.
Top
#94459 - 07/31/05 08:39 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
Roger Offline
Member
Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
Is there any requirement that the owners of these dwelings have a Range, Disposal, Dishwasher, etc... installed after they purchase these units.

That's kind of like making some one buy a Cadilac when all they wanted to buy was an Impalla.

If someone roughed in for a Central Air, yet they discovered the house would be cool all Summer without it, so they decided not to purchase and install the Condensing unit, would they never get a final?

Roger
Top
#94460 - 07/31/05 08:39 AM Re: Final Electrical Inspections
Alan Nadon Offline
Member
Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 398
Loc: Elkhart, IN. USA
Joe,
I agree with your list but, (isn't there always a BUT) the inclusion of appliances in my opinion would only be those that are directly connected. Cord and plug appliances would not be required.
This does lead to the non-GFCI protected outlet in the garage for the freezer.
I'm sure you have heard of the contractor with the empty freezer carton that moved it from job to job.
If this was easy anyone could do it and electricians would be working for minimum wage.
Alan--Inspector
_________________________
Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Top
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box

Recent Posts
Looking for older post
by sparkyinak
Today at 12:27 AM
License exam
by TRUE POWER
Yesterday at 11:33 PM
Members: Non-Members: Did you know?
by Admin
Yesterday at 02:34 PM
Safety at heights?
by HotLine1
01/21/17 08:51 PM
International Wire Colour Codes
by Texas_Ranger
01/21/17 03:29 PM

Who's Online
1 registered (Ruben Rocha), 155 Guests and 12 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
New in the Gallery:
Desk-mounted "power-board"
Top Posters
gfretwell 9066
Trumpy 8560
pauluk 7693
HotLine1 6833
sparky 5545
Member Spotlight
Tom
Tom
Member Since: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals