The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
Yesterday at 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 15
HotLine1 10
Trumpy 8
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Who's Online
1 registered (gfretwell), 225 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#94285 - 07/21/05 04:38 PM Appliance garage receptacle
gserve Offline
Member

Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 92
If an appliance garage is installed on a counter top is a receptacle required in the garage? Code reference please. Thanks

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#94286 - 07/21/05 07:20 PM Re: Appliance garage receptacle
Larry Fine Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 684
Loc: Richmond, VA
Also, do appliance-garage receptacles require GFCI protection?
_________________________
Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com

Top
#94287 - 07/21/05 07:54 PM Re: Appliance garage receptacle
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
201.55(C)(5) discussed appliance garages.

As I read it, there is NO requirement that the 'garage' have any receptacles. Even if it does, the receptacles don't count as the required outlets.

201.8(A)(6) discussed GFI requirements 'where the receptacle serves the counter area.'

I say : the code can't have it both ways. Perhaps this should be submitted for clairification in the next code edition.

I have problems with several NEC kitchen requirements. Perhaps the appropriate committee ought to leave the kitchen to their wives :-).

Imagine a counter whose entire length fronts an appliance garage- where the appliances sit, already plugged into some plugmold, just waiting to be pulled out and used.
Since these receptacles are not counted toward the required receptacles, you are now required to place additional receptacles above the appliance garage.
Now, since the garage receptacles are there to serve the garage -and not the counter- you can argue that GFI is not required.
Wonderful- you've protected the unnecessary, never used outlets, and ignored the ones that get used.

Another issue is the matter of load calculations. There is no limit to the number of receptacles on a RESIDENTIAL circuit. Yet, the appliance garage is the one place that is sure to use a lot of watts. I expect that, in most cases, these receptacles are simply added to the small appliance circuits. While that may have the side-effect of getting them GFI protection, it also increases the chances of there being an overloading issue.

I think we've crossed the line here between "minimum for safety" and into "design" issues.

Top
#94288 - 07/22/05 02:53 PM Re: Appliance garage receptacle
raider1 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/08/05
Posts: 46
Loc: north logan, utah, US
The way I look at it, if you plug in a toaster in the appliance garage receptacle, then drag it out onto the counter, It now is serving the counter top and needs to be GFCI protected.

Chris.

Top
#94289 - 07/22/05 04:36 PM Re: Appliance garage receptacle
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
No receptacles required but if you elect to install them they would need gfci protection.

Top
#94290 - 07/22/05 04:38 PM Re: Appliance garage receptacle
Electricmanscott Offline
Member

Registered: 01/12/02
Posts: 1478
Loc: Holden, MA USA
By the way, reno I have some thoughts on your thoughts but I am short on time. I will reply later.

Top
#94291 - 07/22/05 06:59 PM Re: Appliance garage receptacle
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
I welcome them, Scott. My "thoughts" are just that....and often change as I learn from others!

Top



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals