ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#94116 - 07/07/05 04:20 PM 3-way switch legs
gserve Offline
Member
Registered: 03/11/03
Posts: 92
I have a customer that wants to switch there paddle fan/light combo with 2 switches at each entrance to the room(so that the fan or light can be switched separately at each entrance)I have never seen this done.If I use a 14/2 and 14/3 for travelers and neutral between switch boxes and feed 1 end and take a 14/3 to the fan/light combo does this meet code? The 14/3 will be used for travelers and neutral and the 14/2 for the other set of travelers.What do you think? Any other way to do this?
Top
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#94117 - 07/07/05 04:54 PM Re: 3-way switch legs
Larry Fine Offline
Member
Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 693
Loc: Richmond, VA
I'd start by asking what there is now. Fan box already installed? Is it fed always hot? Or are you starting from a wall switch?

If this is a new installation, the best method is to feed the first switch via a 14-2, run a 14-3 between switches, and a 14-2 from the second switch and the fan.

There are several other ways to wire 3-ways, too. Again, it depends on the present conditions and the wire-routing pathway. Tell us more.
_________________________
Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com
Top
#94118 - 07/07/05 05:23 PM Re: 3-way switch legs
MI Sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Fenton, MI
nothing wrong with that at all....you MUST mark the white in your 14-2 traveler as a hot.
_________________________
I thought that was off!!!!
Top
#94119 - 07/08/05 10:15 AM Re: 3-way switch legs
John Crighton Offline
Member
Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 177
Loc: Southern California
MI, are you sure about that? The end result is that the hot and neutral for one of the circuits are in different cables.

So, how close together would those cables have to be? Would it be OK for them to run around opposite sides of the room? I don't think so.

The problem is that the fan has only one neutral connection for both the fan and the light. Therefore you'd have to start with the 14-2 branch circuit to the fan box to make the neutral connection. Then run ONE 14-3 from the fan box to the first switch box (hot, fan, and light), and continue with TWO 14-3 to the second switch box (each having a hot and two legs).

Make sense?
Top
#94120 - 07/08/05 11:51 AM Re: 3-way switch legs
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I think the easy answer is to run the 4 travellers in a piece of Smurf tube between the switching locations. Then wire count is not an issue. 14-2 into the first one, 6 wires (5 current carrying plus ground) in the smurf to the second switch location and 14-3 out to the fan/light.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
#94121 - 07/08/05 02:53 PM Re: 3-way switch legs
MI Sparky Offline
Member
Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 14
Loc: Fenton, MI
You know John that is correct, I never thought of it that way, our company had wired a certain model of a house in the same way....not for fan though, and the inspector never said a word. He could just run twin 14-3's and tie the neutrals in at both ends!
_________________________
I thought that was off!!!!
Top
#94122 - 07/08/05 05:41 PM Re: 3-way switch legs
poorboy Offline
Member
Registered: 06/02/05
Posts: 124
Loc: Central Maine
John, why is that an issue? A switch leg has no neutral either.
Top
#94123 - 07/08/05 06:00 PM Re: 3-way switch legs
John Crighton Offline
Member
Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 177
Loc: Southern California
MI, you can't just tie the two neutrals, either, because the current will be divided between them, and only half of the current will return in the same cable as the hot leg.

poorboy, you're correct that a 3-wire cable with 2 switch legs and a hot (or load) wire has no neutral, but there is still an equal current in both directions -- "out and back".

We're all familiar with the requirement for the hot and neutral to be carried in the same conduit to prevent inductive heating of the metal. A more general statement of that requirement is that any current-carrying conductor has to be closely paired with another conductor carrying an equal and opposite current. The intent is to produce a net magnetic field of zero, whether the conductors are in conduit or in open space.
Top
#94124 - 07/09/05 05:10 AM Re: 3-way switch legs
dmattox Offline
Member
Registered: 10/20/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Anaheim, CA
The code doesnt require a neutral in romex if I remember right. But I don't do residental.
Top
#94125 - 07/09/05 05:45 AM Re: 3-way switch legs
winnie Offline
Member
Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 649
Loc: boston, ma
For _non-metallic_ wiring systems, I do not belive that there is a _requirement_ that all conductors travel in the same raceway/cable assembly. At some point one hits performance requirements, such as having a low impedance fault current path...but you would have to have a pretty extreme situation for the inductive impedance of the loop to make a difference.

IMHO it is a very good idea to minimize loop area, for example to minimize 'emf' (no proven dangers here, but why go out of ones way to make a potential threat worse when doing things right essentially eliminates the issue). But I see no significant difference between running a _non metallic_ 14-2 and 14-3 side by side, versus running a single 14-5. The junction boxes would either need to be non-metallic, or both cables would need to enter through the same cable clamp (using a clamp suitable for two cables).

I am in total agreement that for metallic wiring systems, the inductive coupling to the conduit or cable armor is a significant problem, and that this would be a code violation.

-Jon
Top
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Member Spotlight
Member Since: 10/07/00
Posts: 3417
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box


Who's Online
0 registered (), 35 Guests and 9 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
 
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
 
Top Posters (30 Days)
Admin 47
HotLine1 43
gfretwell 19
Ruben Rocha 12
Trumpy 9
 
Newest Members
Scotto, Freecrowder, clee512, Jdscott2005, FAIZAN

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals