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#93897 - 06/23/05 09:42 AM Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
cgw Offline
Member
Registered: 07/29/04
Posts: 133
Loc: Rochester NY
Anyone run into a situation where a house has floor to ceiling 16 foot long windows?
The only way to get receptacles 12' on centers is either a floor outlet or something in the window frame at the floor.
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#93898 - 06/23/05 01:18 PM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
energy7 Offline
Member
Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 58
Loc: Oxnard, CA, USA
cgw,
Yes, I encounter this with custom beachfront homes that want that "wonderful" view. Very typically, they have 16 ft+ wide glass, with two sliding panels in the center, and fixed glass on the sides. Part of the problem is structural: they have a rigid frame of steel columns on each side, steel beam overhead, and slab floor. No convenient place to place a receptacle within 72" of the edge of the opening.
I try to catch this in plan check, so the floor boxes can be cast in the concrete slab. Otherwise, our overworked combo inspectors have to try to catch it in the field.
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#93899 - 06/23/05 05:56 PM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
e57 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2876
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Sounds like you'll have add a floor recept...

Quote:
210.52(2) Wall Space. As used in this section, a wall space shall include the following:
(1) Any space 600 mm (2 ft) or more in width (including space measured around corners) and unbroken along the floor line by doorways, fireplaces, and similar openings
(2) The space occupied by fixed panels in exterior walls, excluding sliding panels
(3) The space afforded by fixed room dividers such as freestanding bar-type counters or railings


Just remember it need to be within 18" of the window to count.

Funny, I just posted the same quote in a different post, just needed to hit paste again...
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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#93900 - 06/23/05 07:35 PM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
This has the same reply as I would give to the curent thread about a balcony:
Maybe there's a place for wiremold/plugmold after all.
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#93901 - 06/24/05 03:36 AM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
JoeRossi Offline
Member
Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 26
Loc: Washington, NJ
Most of the builders in our township apply for a variance so they don't have to put a floor outlet in. I see nothing unsave about it and they are will to pay $250 to have it omitted.
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Joe Rossi
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#93902 - 06/24/05 01:17 PM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
energy7 Offline
Member
Registered: 06/10/02
Posts: 58
Loc: Oxnard, CA, USA
Joe,
Let none of those builders come to my town and try to buy their way out of code compliance. 210-52 is there in large part to avoid the use of extension cords.
The majority of residential fire investigations I've been a part of in one fashion or other have been electrical in origin. Many, many of those were as a direct use and miss use of extension cords. Yes there is a safety issue, otherwise the requirement would not be codified.
Overheating due to load or crimping under the chair or sofa leg is a common origin of fire involving extension cords.
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#93903 - 06/24/05 01:46 PM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
George Little Offline
Member
Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1488
Loc: Michigan USA
Any appeals board worth their salt will only waive code requirements when the applicant can offer an equivalent offering to code compliance. Been there- Done that.
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George Little
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#93904 - 06/24/05 07:03 PM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
e57 Offline
Member
Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2876
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
$250!

A cheap single outlet floor box is <$20! Even my slowest guy could pipe it for <$100 total. (Not including crazy mark-up for time trying to talk me out of it.)

Now don't get me wrong... I've been through this with big windows before, and... I am the code authority on my jobs, until the inspector shows up, or I call him, not the customer. If the inspector is willing to write it out on the card, I'm fine with it. And the time it takes to debate the definition of the code, with the customer, then the inspector, who only says to put it in... Somebody gets charged for that... It could run ya $250 just to waste my time, then still have to pay for the outlet.
_________________________
Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
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#93905 - 06/25/05 07:52 AM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
George Offline
Member
Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 375
As I recall and I am unwilling to look at the code but my reading of the code allows:

The 6' rule may be used to compute the number of recepts required. The recepts can then be placed where needed in the room.

Using my reading or asking for a variance seems to be harmless.
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#93906 - 06/25/05 08:37 PM Re: Receptacles at floor to ceiling windows (dwelling)
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
Let me repeat my earlier suggestion...but first.....the rule is that no point on the wall (where it mets the floor) can be more than six feet (measured along the floor line) from a receptacle.....and the receptacle can be as far as 18" into the floor or 66" up the wall.

What I have done in similar situations is install sections of "plugmold." The sections are connected with "wiremold" of the same dimensions as the "plugmold," so there is a nice, clean line. These are mounted on the window frame. If painted appropriately, they appear to be a part of the window.

Somebody should inscribe on every architect's license: "Artists do paintings- not buildings."
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