The Electrical Contractor Network

ECN Electrical Forum
Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Books, Tools and Test Equipment for Electrical and Construction Trades

Register Now!

Register Now!

We want your input!

Featured:
   

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

   
Recent Posts
Sprinklered equipment 26-008
by bigpapa
12/02/16 04:24 PM
On Delay Relay with Auto Reset
by Potseal
12/01/16 09:59 AM
Wow, that was close!
by jraef
11/28/16 07:06 PM
Earthquake in New Zeeland
by RODALCO
11/27/16 11:25 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Tjia1981
11/27/16 06:33 AM
New in the Gallery:
12.5A through 0.75mm˛ flex (just out of curiosity)
Shout Box

Top Posters (30 Days)
gfretwell 13
HotLine1 9
Texas_Ranger 8
sparkyinak 7
Trumpy 6
Who's Online
0 registered (), 235 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#93619 - 06/01/05 08:54 PM Hot Tub Listing
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
Does a Hot Tub have to be Listed as a Package Unit?

Top
2014 / 2011 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#93620 - 06/02/05 02:32 AM Re: Hot Tub Listing
shortcircuit Offline
Member

Registered: 06/27/04
Posts: 608
Loc: massachusetts
LK, 680.44 recognizes field assembled Hot Tubs which would not be listed by any testing organization.

But, 90.4 gives the AHJ power to approve or disapprove of equipment and materials used.

shortcircuit

Top
#93621 - 06/02/05 04:54 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
680.44 should not be used, on the package unit, the unit was not field assy, it was built in a factory, not the field, so that brings us to the inspector, so why should he take on the liability for passing something, that was wired by factory workers, thet may or, may not be qualified to wire the package,
it looks like listed spas, is the only answer, unless the EC wants to take on the liability of the unit wiring, and i don't think his insurance underwriter would be very pleased if he did.

Top
#93622 - 06/02/05 05:06 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing
Speedy Petey Offline
Member

Registered: 08/29/03
Posts: 175
Loc: Upstate, NY
Because the inspector is not called to inspect the tub itself. He is called to inspect the feed to the tub.
I can't see how this is even an issue in the field.
_________________________
Speedy Petey

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein

Top
#93623 - 06/02/05 06:28 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
I have seen jobs where parking lot light installations, have failed because the pole lights were not listed, commercial kitchen equipment jobs failed, because the equipment was not listed.

Top
#93624 - 06/02/05 07:33 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
Les:
Petey makes a point......I just had a thought...how about the "Inplant Inspector"??
DCA has a classification of "Inplant Inspector"; now I have something else to inquire about.

OK, now have you seen a UL label on a whirlpool? (Hydromassage Tub) Also, how about a pool? Inground or above ground? The filter/pump assembly is labeled, the heater is labeled, the pipes a NSF labeled, but...????

BTW, where the parking lot lights "imports"?

John
_________________________
John

Top
#93625 - 06/02/05 08:17 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
John,

Glad to hear from someone in the trenches, yes, I always thought the way Petey does, until i ran into this problem, and yes from my point of view i agree with him, i did my job, however is the inspector going to look for a listed package, remember the package is not like a pool, which is field inspected, because listed equipment was wired in the field, whereas the spa is pre wired, not wired in the field.

For the light poles, how did you guess, yes import.

On the In Plant inspector, years back we built everything from control panels, to complete packaging lines, all without listing or inspection.

So at least i know, when i do non listed spa installs in Double Rodville, they will pass.

Thanks for the reply, shure wanted to hear from the other side.

Les

Top
#93626 - 06/02/05 09:54 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I kicked this over to the IAEI guys and they had an interesting view. Basically if this is not listed by a NRTL it ain't listed.
http://www.iaeifl.org/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=26&t=000148
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
#93627 - 06/02/05 10:24 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing
LK Offline

Member

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1721
Loc: New Jersey
gfretwell,

Great job, this is what i thought, we have a large number of spa manufactures out there selling non listed equipment.
And it appears that some inspectors are only now starting to reject these units.

Thank you,

Top
#93628 - 06/02/05 11:16 PM Re: Hot Tub Listing
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa

IMHO
One of the problems with inspectors actually approving a design in the field is their workload. Around here they may be doing 30 or more a day so they don't really have time for an in depth inspection that they are willing to sign their name to.
It is a lot easier for the CBO to simply say "no listing, no go" and err on the safe side.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >



ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals