ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#93554 - 06/01/05 04:18 PM HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
LK Offline
Member
Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1429
Loc: New Jersey
We completed a hot tub installation and requested inspection, next we get a call from the owner, it failed, so we asked what did he write on thew sticker, no sticker nothing just failed, i called the inspector to ask what failed, and his reply was he needs to see a UL sticker on the tub, well i guess we can,t do any more hot tub installations, because none that i have seen have the UL sticker, I called around to different tub manufactures and they all say no sticker needed, what did i miss and when did i miss it.
I think we are going to need a lot of box cars, to haul all these hot tubs out of jersey.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 06-01-2005).]
Top
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#93555 - 06/01/05 04:27 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
Gregtaylor Offline
Member
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 212
Loc: Boise, Idaho, USA
I have never seen a brand name packaged hot tub that didn't have a UL sticker. Who builds the ones you're installing?
Top
#93556 - 06/01/05 04:30 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
LK Offline
Member
Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1429
Loc: New Jersey
Bay City Hot Tubs, we install brand name spas and i have never see one with a sticker, all the electrical including the control panel, is UL He is looking for a sticker for the package.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 06-01-2005).]
Top
#93557 - 06/01/05 04:33 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I agree these skid packs should be tested/evaluated by a recognized lab but I am not sure they ever are.
I looked at the "Hot Springs" site and they say their tubs are tested be "Exponant Labs" but I am not sure that is an actual recognized lab. They do not mention U/L at all.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
#93558 - 06/01/05 04:36 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
These are assembled from approved componants as a rule but I don't think the entire assembly is tested.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
#93559 - 06/01/05 04:39 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
LK Offline
Member
Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1429
Loc: New Jersey
Yes that is what every manufacture has told us, they are all built with UL approved pumps, heaters and equipment, and not required to have testing, I think what needs testing here is the inspector, here in New Jersey we have some of the best inspectors, i wonder where this one came from, at least if he would quote a code section or city code, then i would have some idea of what he is failing.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 06-01-2005).]
Top
#93560 - 06/01/05 05:49 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
gfretwell Offline


Member
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9039
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
I guess the real question is if anyone is inspecting these packaged units?
Simply using listed pumps and heaters does not insure that they are properly bonded, conductors sized correctly and that they have the appropriate motor starters etc.
I would think a major brand is going to take the time to do things right but a lot of these things are assembled in an industrial bay somewhere by a company nobody has heard of, with minimal supervision.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell
Top
#93561 - 06/01/05 06:07 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5316
Loc: Blue Collar Country
I have both good news and bad news that may surprise some of us- I sure was!

UL does in fact test and list Hot tubs- but there has been very little participation by the hot tub industry. I have no idea why this is, but this lack of participation is not unusual.
Among "name brands," Marquis is listed- but the '500 lb gorilla' (Jacuzzi) is not.
In other industries where I have investigated the weakness of UL's role, the most common reasons were a) UL and the industry had different opinions as to what the test standards should be; b) another organisation had already addressed the needs of the industry; and c) the industry was quite happy with its' own standards.


It would be absolutely improper for any government official to insist upon a "UL listing." This is because UL is a private body, and a government official has no business directing you to patronise any private concern. Malfeasance is one word that comes to mind.
An inspector can ask for approval of a "nationally recognised testing lab" or its' equivalent. Of these organisations there are literally thousands, many sponsored by industry associations and focusing on that one industry.
It seems that the hot tub industry is content with having its' products listed by ETL.
Top
#93562 - 06/01/05 06:32 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
LK Offline
Member
Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 1429
Loc: New Jersey
Yes correct John, ETL has been on a few tubs, however the industry as a whole, has resisted any inspection program, and you have a real mess out there, now true that they are built in a bay, with very little supervision, but where in the code is there a requirement for a testing of these units.

Out of the last 10 tubs only one had a label, and that one looked like a handyman wired it.

What i would like to know is does this something we need to look for, or is this inspector in left field, here in New Jersey, we have some of the best inspectors around, they are up to date, with just about every situation, and they usually are very helpful in resolving code issues.

And by the way i agree that these tubs should have a listing due to the fact that they are built under little or no supervision.
Top
#93563 - 06/01/05 07:13 PM Re: HOT TUB FAILS INSPECTION
Gregtaylor Offline
Member
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 212
Loc: Boise, Idaho, USA
Quite interesting. I believe has been the individual components that have been listed in the units I've wired, not the whole package. But consider. When I build a new packaging line at the local potato processing plant I use listed components and I build what is essentially a new machine. The whole machine isn't listed, just the components. I think there is a difference somewhere, I'm just not sure where.
Our AHJ absolutely does require UL or CSA listings for all electrical equipment. I have had to remove restaurant equipment from a job site at final inspection due to non-listing. Anyone else?
Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >

Member Spotlight
Member Since: 11/17/00
Posts: 2232
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box


Who's Online
0 registered (), 59 Guests and 9 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
 
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
 
Top Posters (30 Days)
Admin 47
HotLine1 43
gfretwell 19
Ruben Rocha 12
Trumpy 9
 
Newest Members
Freecrowder, clee512, Jdscott2005, FAIZAN, Regitest2

ECN Electrical Forums - sponsored by Electrical Contractor Network - Electrical and Code Related Discussion for Electrical Contractors, Electricians, Inspectors, Instructors, Engineers and other related Professionals