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#93544 - 05/30/05 05:54 PM CB as disconnect means
Electric Ian Offline
Member

Registered: 02/10/04
Posts: 132
Loc: MA, USA
I'm confused. 422.31(B) allows the branch circuit breaker to serve as the disconnecting means even if not within sight of the appliance as long as the breaker is capable of being locked in the open position.
Aren't ALL circuit breakers capable of being locked in the open position thru use of a lockout device??

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#93545 - 05/30/05 06:26 PM Re: CB as disconnect means
George Offline
Member

Registered: 02/23/02
Posts: 380
The lockout device needs to be present. Often times that means installed in the CB box.

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#93546 - 05/30/05 07:06 PM Re: CB as disconnect means
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
You should be able to use the cover of the service panel if there is a lock on the cover, for a means of disconnect also.

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#93547 - 05/30/05 09:05 PM Re: CB as disconnect means
gfretwell Offline

Member

Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 9045
Loc: Estero,Fl,usa
Around here they usually want the "within sight" disconnect, even though the code does allow a lockable breaker. I tend to agree.
It is hard enough to get a tech to turn off the disconnect when it is close. If he has to climb down from the attic, get a padlock from his truck, move all the crap the homeowner has piled in front of the panel yada yada ... he will work the unit hot. Most local AHJs around here feel the same way.
_________________________
Greg Fretwell

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#93548 - 05/31/05 05:17 PM Re: CB as disconnect means
Tom Offline
Member

Registered: 01/01/01
Posts: 1069
Loc: Shinnston, WV USA
Ian,

The provision for locking or adding a lock requires the installation of a separate piece of hardware that will remain in place. See the last sentence of 422.31(B) in the 2005 edition.

Harold,

I don't believe that locking the cover of the panelboard is the same as actually locking the branch- circuit breaker handle in place,

Tom
_________________________
Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.

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#93549 - 05/31/05 07:53 PM Re: CB as disconnect means
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member

Registered: 01/22/05
Posts: 5305
Loc: Blue Collar Country
We have had similar discussions in the past, and, as a reminder:
- OSHA rules and NEC requirements differ;
- Until the early '90's there were practically no electrical lock-out devices made;
- Such devices often don't work on older equipment; and,
- There is a lot of perfectly good equipment out there that was made before LOTO was an issue.

So what did we do back then? Most often, we opened the box, disconnected the wires, and maybe taped a sign up. If there was any doubt, we also disconnected the wires at the machine.

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#93550 - 06/07/05 07:07 PM Re: CB as disconnect means
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
Tom,

What is the difference of putting a lock on the breaker or just locking the door of the panel. Now I am not trying to give anyone here a hard time. I am just asking.

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#93551 - 06/07/05 07:17 PM Re: CB as disconnect means
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
I would have a problem with locking the panel cover close. What if there was a need turn off or on a different circuit in a hurry? Or worse yet what about an emergency need to get to the main? Now if this is a motor, 430.102(B) Exception makes locking the panel cover out of the question.

Just as a side note- When the last time you saw the key associated with a panel?
_________________________
George Little

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#93552 - 06/08/05 05:16 AM Re: CB as disconnect means
Yoopersup Offline
Member

Registered: 03/04/03
Posts: 826
Loc: Michigan
Section 422.32 disconnecting means for appliances (if motor driven )Refers you to Part 9 in 430 which States INDIVIDUALLY capable of being locked Read 430.102 Exception . (that whole section refers to locking out the OVERCURRENT Device) They put that in there to make you put breaker locks on the instead of locking the covers.Explaination on page 544 2002 NFPA code handbook

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#93553 - 06/08/05 07:02 AM Re: CB as disconnect means
mvpmaintman Offline
Member

Registered: 09/15/03
Posts: 113
Loc: Manhattan, Kansas, USA
Another reason for locking out the circuit is that most panels of the same series use the same key. So, someone else might energize a circuit inadvertently.

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