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#93389 - 05/23/05 02:46 PM NM Cable
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Can you use NM cable as the wiring method for a Type I construction, high rise building? per NEC 2002 Edition?
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George Little

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#93390 - 05/23/05 03:36 PM Re: NM Cable
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
No.
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Salt Lake City

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#93391 - 05/23/05 03:57 PM Re: NM Cable
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Depends on other building codes, where it is, and the finish of the cavity it is in. See Annex E. The shaded stuff is permitted, I think, depending on what you call "Combustable"?

(And who's string in the building department gets pulled! And what type they want to call the building, or parts of it. Something I see a lot of where I'm at lately. First floor commercial type I, mixed type III, IV, and V for a few floors, type II, and I again. SF hasn't hit 2002 yet, and we don't know how they will modify it, but it makes you wonder in situations like those, how do you bid?)

Other than that confusing ball of wax, it is a combustable material in my mind, and say no! I have argued this one before with someone else, and personally I think the NEC muddied the waters on this, instead of making it in any way clear one way or the other in the way this was written. It's not spelled out in the "Permitted", or in the "Not Permitted".

The NEC commentary does not clear it up either:
 Quote:
A well-established means of codifying fire protection and fire safety requirements is to classify buildings by types of construction, based on materials used for the structural elements and the degree of fire resistance afforded by each element. The five fundamental construction types used by the model building codes are Type I (fire resistive), Type II (noncombustible), Type III (combination of combustible and noncombustible), Type IV (heavy timber), and Type V (wood frame). Types I and II basically require all structural elements to be noncombustible, whereas Types III, IV, and V allow some or all of the structural elements to be combustible (wood).
The selection of building construction types is regulated by the building code, based on the occupancy, height, and area of the building. The local code official or the architect for a building project can be consulted to determine the minimum allowable (permitted) construction type for the building under consideration. When a building of a selected height (in feet or stories above grade) and area is permitted to be built of combustible construction (i.e., Types III, IV, or V), the installation of nonmetallic sheathed cable is permitted. The common areas (corridors) and incidental and subordinate uses (laundry rooms, lounge rooms, etc.) that serve a multifamily dwelling occupancy are also considered part of the multifamily occupancy, thereby allowing the use of nonmetallic sheathed cable in those areas.
If a building is to be of noncombustible construction (i.e., Type I or II) by the owner's choice, even though the building code would permit combustible construction, the building is allowed to be wired with nonmetallic sheathed cable. In such an instance, nonmetallic sheathed cable may be installed in the noncombustible building because the Code would have permitted the building to be of combustible construction.
Annex E provides charts and other explanatory information to assist the user in understanding and categorizing the exact types of construction under consideration. A table to cross reference building types to the various building code types of construction is provided in Annex E also.
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#93392 - 05/23/05 04:00 PM Re: NM Cable
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Ryan, what if it is a high rise apartment, as a "multi-family dwelling"? The code doesn't seem to exclude it.

(if portions are type 3, 4 and 5)

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 05-23-2005).]
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Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#93393 - 05/23/05 06:03 PM Re: NM Cable
harold endean Offline
Member

Registered: 02/16/02
Posts: 2248
Loc: Boonton, NJ
George,

I think in NJ you still can. I don't believe that NJ adopted that section of the NEC which would allow the NM wire above ceilings.

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#93394 - 05/25/05 05:19 PM Re: NM Cable
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
The 2002 NEC tells us at 334.10 (1)(2)(3) in which types of construction that NM cable is permitted (Types III, IV, & V). 334.12 does not exclude NM cables in Construction Types I and II. That being true, NM cable is suitable in Construction Types I and II under the 2002 NEC. The 2005 NEC on the other hand at 334.12(A)(1) clarified that NM cable is not permitted in "any dwelling or structure not specifically permitted in 334.10 (1),(2) and (3)."

The State of Michigan has for as long as I can remember allowed NM cable in Construction Types I & II with no 3 floor limitation. This was done via amendment and we have an excellent track record.

[This message has been edited by George Little (edited 05-25-2005).]
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#93395 - 05/25/05 05:44 PM Re: NM Cable
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
In dwellings, the type of construction doesn't matter, and you can put it in dropped ceilings. [334.10(1) and 334.12(1)].

In multi-family dwellings, you can use it in type 3, 4 or 5, and you can put it in dropped ceilings. [334.12(2) and 334.12(2).

In commercial, you can use it in type 3, 4 or 5 construction, but you can't put it in a dropped ceiling. [334.10(3) and 334.12(2)].

E57: You can't change type of construction in the middle of a building. TOC governs the entire structure. See chapter 6 of the IBC.
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Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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#93396 - 05/28/05 09:29 PM Re: NM Cable
macmikeman Offline
Member

Registered: 07/16/02
Posts: 718
Loc: Honolulu, Hawaii
Question for Ryan J. Ryan, what does the IBC stand for ? Is it International building code ? Honolulu City and County works off the Uniform Building Code. I do not know how similar they are to each other, but I still am uneasy running romex in any structure over 3 floors yet, because of possible confusion on my part or the local ahj about the different types of construction may cause my having to rip the stuff out and lose time and money.

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#93397 - 05/29/05 01:31 AM Re: NM Cable
e57 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/27/03
Posts: 2837
Loc: S.F.,CA USA
Ryan, I'm not sure if it is happen where you are. But I have been seeing more and more "multi-use buildings" with "envelopes" of fire and building types.

Garages and Commercial in one type, then wood framing above that for residential, and mechanical and public access spaces in another type on the roof.
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Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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#93398 - 05/29/05 08:57 AM Re: NM Cable
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator

Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 1355
Loc: West Jordan, Utah, USA
Yes, the IBC stands for Internaional Building Code. It is very similiar to the UBC, especially in this area.

e: I understand what you are saying, but please believe me...type of construction governs the entire structure, not just portions of it.

The way TOC works is it mandates the size and height of the building, based on occupancy type. For example, take a skyscraper. These must be built to the most restrictive TOC there is, which is 1A. That is because egressing out of a 100 story building is a difficult thing...that means nothing that can burn can be in the building. The fact floors 1-48 are business, then floor 49 is residential, then floors 50-100 are business again doesn't change the fact that I have a scyscraper.
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Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City

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