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#93142 - 05/04/05 04:16 PM Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
cusimano  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2
Bethesda, MD USA
I have a 6 foot long trough runnung from an interior wall to a 600 amp distribution. Trough is chase nippled to raintite ductwork outside to a CT cabinet. I had one inspector pass the job saying everything was acceptable but had to have another inspector come back to inspect some sprinkller pipes that were routed near my trough and equipment. The second inspector failed my installtion.

Had to call in the chief inspector to make a ruling. He said both inspectors were wrong and is now taking the matter under consideration due to existing site conditions (old building being froced to comply with current codes, next to impossible site conditions, low basement ceilings, utilties all over basemrent etc.) Chief said that NEC does not allow rigid conduit or trough to carry unfused conductors inside the building, thats news to me!!
We were forced to work with what we had. Any article available to save me some aggrevation? I don't want to be forced to remove the trough if I don't have to. We've got 3 sets of 300 MCM in it, we'll neve get that through a 4 inch condolet!


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#93143 - 05/04/05 10:44 PM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
Gregtaylor  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 212
Boise, Idaho, USA
I know that unfused conductors cannot run inside a building, but I'll be d...ed if I can find the article. You can make them be considered "outside" by encasing the conduit in 2 inches of concrete per 230.6(2), but I don't know if this helps in your situation.


#93144 - 05/05/05 11:56 AM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
Alan Nadon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
Elkhart, IN. USA
230.70(A)(1) requires the service disconnect to be ...nearest the point of entry. The distance is a judgement call by the AHJ.

Depending on the building,i.e. existing & old, I wouldn't think 6 foot as unreasonable.
See if the Chief inspector will visit the site and then make his decision.

Also ask if their is an appeals process if he gives you an answer you don't want to hear.
Alan--


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.

#93145 - 05/05/05 09:07 PM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
You said the job was passed by the first inspector.
Shouldn't that be the end of that phase of the inspection process?
How can a second inspector "unpass" a job?


#93146 - 05/05/05 09:14 PM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
Larry Fine  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Richmond, VA
What sounds weird to me is one inspector passes the job, one fails it, and they're both wrong.


Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com

#93147 - 05/06/05 11:02 AM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
Yoopersup  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 822
Michigan
Wiring Metods for 600 volts Nominal or less For services : 2002 NEC 230.43


#93148 - 05/06/05 03:20 PM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,803
Brick, NJ USA
Gentlemen:

"230.70(A)(1) requires the service disconnect to be ...nearest the point of entry. The distance is a judgement call by the AHJ."

The 'judgement call' seems to be the stumbling block, and through previous debates both here and locally, is a tough call.

Basically, using SEU, coming from the meter pan to the panel in a 'straight shot' is acceptable around here. Example being; panel in basement, meter on exterior wall; drilling thru near sill plate and droping down into panel, straight, 12 to 18".
Same with PCV or conduit. Offset the panel to the right or left from point of entry usually buys a red sticker.

Concrete encasement (2" min on all sides) of the conduit is acceptable, rarely seen in resi though.

When in doubt, talk to the AHJ, or install an exterior disco.

I see jobs in this area done all kinds of ways; saw one with 40-50' of RGC on the exterior of the house, before point of entry. Oh yes, it was ugly IMHO, but 'not my house' and not my job!

John


John

#93149 - 05/06/05 05:11 PM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
cusimano  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2
Bethesda, MD USA
Well, I got my appeal denied today. Yes, one passed it and one failed it. We're in a major county adjacent to Washington D.C. and the cheief inspector isn't even a master, what a hoot.
They're going to force me to install a 600 amp weatherproof disconnect outside so the inside trough is acceptable. The real kicker is that the inspector who failed it told me in person 3 months ago that either torugh or rigid conduit would be fine after visually inspecting my dilema. The reason I asked him in person is that we DO NOT GET ALONG and I wanted to avoid any problems down the line.


#93150 - 05/15/05 01:56 PM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
Tech-Home  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 16
Burnsville, MN, USA
I had to have 4 ft. of sch. 40 covered in 2" of concrete in a garage on a new 200 amp remodel because the H.O. decided to make some changes post bid to his kitchen wall. He paid of course but was not happy with the inspector's decision, I told the H.O. what would probably happen. The other option (more costly) was to put a 200 amp service disco. outside the house. The inspector confirmed that there is no actual distance called out in the code but that the most consistent interpretation is that the panel be located as close as possible to the point of entrance to the home.


#93151 - 05/15/05 02:25 PM Re: Inspector issue: Trough for service entrance conductors  
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
If you could just move the whole building to where I'm at. You would be OK for 40'+!

The ol' "dont get along with Inspector" huh. Should have gotten a signature on something, for that matter with notary witness. Find a few jobs they did pass with simular or exceeding situations. But it still wont pay for that disco. Sorry to hear 'bout it.


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason


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