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#92516 - 03/21/05 12:07 PM GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
homersimpson Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/01/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Attleboro, MA, USA
I was wondering if anyone has heard of people using GFI outlets mounted near the panel to supply circuits requiring a GFI breaker. I would like to know if this is a common practice among penny pinching hacks, or just urban legend.

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#92517 - 03/21/05 12:55 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
Active 1 Offline
Member

Registered: 02/22/03
Posts: 684
Loc: Grayslake IL, USA
I seen several GFI's mounted below the panel for this. Many locals have a rule the GFI rec can only be load sided for that room.

A number of homes built when the GFI's first came out had 1 working everything, kitchen, baths, garage, basement, and garage. They pipe and pulled them all together.

Tom

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#92518 - 03/21/05 01:24 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
resqcapt19 Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/00
Posts: 2209
Loc: IL
What circuits require a GFCI breaker? I can think of one that requires a GFCI receptacle, but can't think of any that require a GFCI breaker.
Don
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#92519 - 03/21/05 01:34 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
HotLine1 Offline

Member

Registered: 04/03/02
Posts: 6804
Loc: Brick, NJ USA
The 'type' of GFI protection installed is a 'design' issue, not a NEC issue.
GFI can be the device (GFI Recept), a GFI CB, or a 'faceless' GFI.

John
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#92520 - 03/21/05 01:53 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
George Little Offline
Member

Registered: 01/18/04
Posts: 1492
Loc: Michigan USA
Well if you'll allow me to digress from the GFCI issue, the code requires Ground Fault protection for Fixed Outdoor Electric Deicing and Snow Melting that is seen as a possible location for a GFCI receptacle. This should be a circuit that is protected by a breaker and can not be substituted by a a receptacle. In fact the breaker is the only device available for this type of installation. The GFPE has a trip level od 30-50 ma as I recall and the GFCI has a trip level of 4-6ma.
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#92521 - 03/21/05 02:38 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
Roger Offline
Member

Registered: 05/18/02
Posts: 1779
Loc: N.C.
I agree with Don, I know of requirements (5 to be exact) for a GFCI receptacle, but not for full circuit protection.

This may not be what Don is refering to.

Roger

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#92522 - 03/21/05 03:28 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
HLCbuild Offline
Member

Registered: 12/05/04
Posts: 206
Loc: Herndon,Va USA
Once again, I'm in the '99 NEC but the requirements here are to be GFCI protected. It doesn't specify as to how to do this. Either a breaker or a receptacle. I prefer to use GFCI receptacles so my customers don't have to wander to the basement or garage to reset a GFCI breaker that trips when they are ready to dry their hair having just stepped out of the shower. That said, it is the choice of the designer.

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#92523 - 03/21/05 04:26 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
If you provide GFI protection for the small appliance branch circuits with a GFCI receptacle at the panel you would have a violation.

Bob
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Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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#92524 - 03/21/05 04:50 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
CTwireman Offline
Member

Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 839
Loc: Connecticut, USA
 Quote:
If you provide GFI protection for the small appliance branch circuits with a GFCI receptacle at the panel you would have a violation.
Bob



Unless you used dead front GFCIs. Why anyone would do this is unknown to me. I have never seen it.

Peter D.
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#92525 - 03/21/05 05:07 PM Re: GFI outlet in place of GFI breaker?
iwire Offline
Moderator

Registered: 01/05/03
Posts: 4343
Loc: North Attleboro, MA USA
Peter

by Pete;
 Quote:
Unless you used dead front GFCIs.


By me;
 Quote:
If you provide GFI protection for the small appliance branch circuits with a GFCI receptacle at the panel you would have a violation.
Bob



It's all in the details.

 Quote:
Why anyone would do this is unknown to me.


It is a solution if you wanted GFI protection from a fuse or obsolete CB panel.

Why not use a GFCI receptacle at the point of use?

Have you tried to install a GFCI receptacle in an old box?

Bob
_________________________
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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